GWM & GAM Speak Out!
Recently at the baths I ran into Malcolm (read Chubs and Chasers). He was with another chub and they were relaxing in the hot tub after another sex session. I lamented to Malcolm about the lack of guys (of any race) that are interested in Asians. Malcolm listened in sympathy and suggested I look for guys on one of those websites where men look for casual sex. With nothing else to lose, I decided to go on-line. I used the search tool and typed in "Looking for GAM". I only came up with only one ad, and it was five years old. Before I continue, I want to make something very clear. I am not saying that GWM (Gay White Men) should sleep/date GAM (Gay Asian Men) because it is politically correct. I really believe that nobody chooses attraction. It is just a preference. White men have been conditioned from birth to be attracted to their own race. There is nothing wrong with that. Nor am I saying that I (the author) want a white guy, and that I sound like sour grapes. That is not the point to these essays. The point is that Gay White Men (who make up 95% of the dating pool in gay community) see Gay Asian Men as totally worthless, undesirable and completely invisible. And the sooner, we as Asian Men accept that and move on, the happier we will be. GAM chase after GWM to fill up the emptiness inside of them, the disease to please. Fellow brothers, we need start building our self-esteem and confidence. We need to open our minds and look to the person, regardless of the race. Find someone who can really appreciate our beauty and what we have to offer. As I said before, don't be a Potato Queen! I've written about how GWM don't get turned on by GAM their same age. (For related links, scroll to the bottom of this page) This is by far the most hotly debated topic on my website. Of all of the men who have signed my Guestbook, I've received dozens and dozens of messages on this subject. No other essay I've written about even comes close to this debate that is raging on my website. A day does not go by where somebody doesn’t sign my Guestbook to comment on this topic. Mostly young GAM writing to me say thank-you, for giving us a voice. In fact no white guy (who isn't a self-proclaimed Rice Queen and/or over 40) has written me to disagree with my essays on this subject. If you scroll down to view the poll that is being conducted, over 80% of GWM say they prefer to sleep with their own race. OVER 80%! Right now, I'm going to share some comments on this topic from GWM and GAM around the world. Name: Tim City/Country: New York, USA I somehow got to your "racisms" page while searching on Google for a bathhouse (as in hot spring) in upstate New York... But I read it and I had to write to you. As a gay Asian male, I can relate too much of what you are saying. I am honestly better looking than 98.8% of the population--and because I always thought I was good-looking, I began body building in high school & I now have a body of a gay (White) porn star. (To view Tim's body, which he says is rejected by mediocre (his words) white guys on a regular basis, click here) Having said all that, my experience hasn't been all that different from yours in many situations. Normally, I do okay with good-looking men (of all races and ethnicities) because I have my own circle of friends from the gym etc. and they know me as a person--which often makes my ethnicity less of a "turn off" and more "doable" to them, I think. But when I am alone in a bar etc., I can definitely tell you, lots of young mediocre White guys think they actually get to ignore me! But, the fact is that I, an Asian male, am out of their league! This whole trend is unfortunate--and, although I hate to blame the victim, it doesn't really help when good-looking Asian guys are often seen with ugly elderly White men... This is depressing me. It sucks. Name: Jimmy Lee City/Country: Unknown I have read a few of your stories and admire the sense of honesty you bring to them. However, as I was reading I couldn't help but feel frustrated at how completely the author has bought into the stereotypes and generalizations fostered upon gay Asian men. Particularly, I point to the story Rice Queens...where the moral of the story is that given a Hobson's choice --a horny white guy would rather fuck a retard than an Asian. Have you ever considered maybe that white guy had a fetish for retards? To put it in terms of rejection is framing oneself as a victim. And even worse, complicit acceptance of western values of beauty. Shame on you. I too am Chinese but I am proud of my almond eyes and flat face. And by the way, I don't have any problems attracting extremely good-looking white guys. Name: Tim (same author as above) City/Country: New York, USA Going back to the "racism" issue--I can see how some Asians may write you a NASTY note. You see some of us are so clueless that we don't know we aren't accepted. Others, like you and I, are perhaps more attuned to the fact that we are treated as 2nd-class citizens, not based on our individual merits but due to our ethnic membership. I personally know a Filipino guy who THINKS he is an integral member of a bunch of White guy friends, not realizing that these people are totally making fun of him & they don't even consider him a friend. They'd make him pay for things, though. He'd much rather go out with them and pay their cover charges (one can expect pay something like $20 just to get in a club) than be with us, who treat him with dignity. And you KNOW these guys just make him buy them drinks and then eventually disappear... It's really sad, but some people just CHOOSE to be blind about these things, and get mad at us for pointing out the obvious/inevitable. It doesn't really upset me as much as it would/should, because I don't find White guys attractive to begin with... So being ignored by some ugly White boy doesn't affect my life all that much--although it certainly is unpleasant to be rejected because they are White and I am Asian. Do you like Latinos? African-Americans? Middle-Eastern? Asians? They typically don't buy into the whole ugly "China man with a small penis" Notion prevalent among young White boys. They, to me, are much better looking than White boys, and, more importantly, they are able to relate to our experience of being excluded/rejected for our ethnicity. I have dated some White boys, but they totally bugged me because they were so culturally clueless! Name: Anonymous White Male City/Country: Unknown Maybe if Asian guys were a bit straighter acting more of us white boys would like them. How often do you see Asian men in drag? While white men have masculine underwear parties where guys take off their shirts and expose rippling stomach muscles, Asian gay men have "Miss Asia" beauty pageants with Asian men dressing in drag, badly miming the words of Whitney Houston (their lips don't even match the words because they can't even speak English properly). The funny thing is, Asian gay men also have "Mr. Asia" beauty pageants, only thing is, it's the same contestants who compete in the Miss Asia contests, but they dress as a male instead of a female for that night. Sure white guys do drag also, but there is an even balance between masculine and fem in the white gay community. With Asians, almost all of them do drag or walk like a faggot, are skinny, limp wrist and will basically suck off any old fat white man that they come across because that is all they are able to get looking the foul way they do. For f**k's sake, even most Asians are repulsed by their own kind and chase white men because even THEY find themselves disgusting. (they are). I had a friend who dated an Asian who was muscular, and was shocked the next week he saw him out in a woman's dress, a pair of high heels and a wig. It was the first and last time he ever dated an Asian, and he was the butt of many jokes for some time for it! If Asian gay men want to be accepted, try acting like a man for f**k's sake. You WERE born as a male, act like one! It has nothing to do with race, it's to do with Asian gay men being sissy, limp wrist with a hairstyle that looks like the head of a circumcised penis and little round circular steel rimmed glasses. They turn my stomach, as do fem white men who look like them. Most gay Asians make gay people look bad and deserve everything they get. Apologies to the half a dozen gay Asian men in the world that act like men and are insulted by this, this posting does not apply to you. Name:Thomas (Re:Above Letter) City/Country: UK I wanted/ had to respond to the disturbing nazi filth that "Anonymous White Cunt" wrote. I'm assuming he was for real. I'm surprised you know so much about the Mr. and Mrs. Asia events and I think you told it how it is. Except you missed that it is just for fun. Something you need more of. I pity you with your twisted views of what a man is. Since you are so butch and always tops how do you treat your passive partners? Are they lower than you too? Can you even relate to other people? Sure, I agree Asians can be feminine, just like many white guys everyone knows, I guess you notice the Asian ones more though, don't you. That makes them easier to hate. You have so much hate it makes me question your upbringing. Why can't you just tolerate people you don't understand? It's a shame you didn't include your email address so I could write to you directly, what's wrong? Aren't you "MAN" enough? Love and Kisses without fear, Thomas Name: jlhuckleberry City/Country: Yokohama, Japan I am a professed rice queen. I am not "old, fat and ugly" as has been described by some people. Nor do I "prey on Asians that are young and submissive". While I should be offended by these stereotypes of the rice queen, I am not. I find it typical, silly and all together a sign that people, regardless of where they are from and were raised, are discriminatory. I will venture to give some credence to the stereotype, however. Why? That is what is mostly seen. On a recent trip to Thailand, I visited Pattaya. I was probably the youngest non- Asian there. The foreigners there were just what are stereotyped: old, overweight, ugly (by my standards at least) and obviously preying on young, Asian boys. I am probably correct in saying that the majority are couples where money has been exchanged. However, I feel this is an isolated case. I live and work in Asia (Japan). I see all ages, body types, interests and levels of physical beauty being represented in the gay community. For the inter-ethnic relationship, most are older white guys with the Asian. But the age differences don't appear to be that great. Also, there were some older Asians with younger non-Asians. Granted that is a very small minority, but it is there. The conflicts that come from inter-ethnic dating boils down to inferiority/superiority feelings, fear of the unknown, and the unspoken societal rule of staying within your own kind. For some, there is the feeling that members of there own ethnic group are inferior to other groups, therefore they want to be with the superior group. For others, they feel superior to others within their ethnic group by dating someone outside their group. For the majority, it is the fear of the unknown. Because the cultures are different, the obvious physical differences and overt differences that are seen when together, there is a factor of unknown. And as humans, those things that are unknown should be feared, avoided or otherwise not allowed to happen. By far the biggest factor in the inter-ethnic dating issue is the unwritten societal rule of stay with your own kind. I am from southern America and it is I remember very well that this rule was obeyed. To break it was to ask for MAJOR trouble. I find all this silly really. As gay men and women, we face discriminations and pressures from society as a whole more so than any other group. Also, members of the gay community are supposedly more open to and accepting of, differences. Why are we making a big issue of inter-ethnic within our own community? It shouldn't happen. Why do I like Asian men? I find them incredibly sexy. Their skin, their attitudes, their devotion. I don't go looking for submissive guys either. I am in a leadership position at my job and in the community. I like a guy that takes charge and Asians are, in my opinion, better suited for that role. So you can say that I am the antithesis of what is being written about rice queens. I am proud of being gay and of being a rice queen. I don't know if this will confuse, anger or otherwise spawn more debate or not. But it is my two cents worth. Name: EaststarNYC (Re: Above letter from jlhuckleberry) City/Country: Singapore Well huckleberry, you write that you are proud to be a rice queen. That really takes the cake. The reality is that Rice Queens fetishism Asian guys. In the same way as a man who says he will only date women with 44DD boobs, it's not the person you care about, it's the physical qualities like "smooth skin" "black hair" "small eyes". Or worse still, you stereotype an entire race with certain qualities, real or imagined -- in your case, you wrote "Their skin, their attitudes, their devotion." Oh please! That's so offensive. It's as if you were describing your pet dog. It's like writing about how you love black men for their big penises and athletic prowess. What you are doing is stereotyping. And this isn't just a gay thing. Asian women have written volumes about white men who date only Asian women, and how that too is just as pathetic. In the latest issue of Details, an Asian women wrote, "Guys who only date Asian women are just as unsavory as women who date only billionaires... complement my haircut, not my hair..." I also disagree with your sociological analysis when you say, "By far the biggest factor in the inter-ethnic dating issue is the unwritten societal rule of stay with your own kind." My objection to Rice Queens and Potato Queens has nothing to do with interracial dating. I date white guys but I also date Asian guys and black guys. I am all for interracial dating! But when you are a RICE QUEEN or POTATO QUEEN that means you date only one race, and that's the problem. It is a fetish! And unlike other fetishes when you objectify shoes or whatever as your sexual focus, as an RQ or PQ, you are dealing with human beings. I find it especially pathetic in the case of Asian guys who shun other Asians and date only white guys because that reflects some profound subconscious self-hatred. It's one thing to be attracted to white guys as much as other Asian guys, but when an Asian guy tells me "I won't date an Asian no matter how attractive or compatible with me" or "I rather eat glass than date another Asian", then well, we're in some serious mind-screw here. It would be great if we could all just throw out our racial prejudices -- both against other races and our own. I find beauty in all races and have dated blacks, whites and Asians. When you focus on one race only, you turn it into a fetish and the person involved becomes secondary in importance to the physical and other qualities with which you stereotype that race. And given the dominance of Western economic and cultural power vise a vise Asia's, there are plenty of opportunities for white guys to use their power to get their fetishes fulfilled, hence the busloads of white men in Thailand and Vietnam clutching fistfuls of Euros and Dollars, drooling through the hoards of teenage boys for rent. But whether you are living in Thailand or Singapore, in a hut or in a condo, if you're unable to date your own race and stereotype another, it's just as pathetic a situation. Name: Terry City/Country: Los Angeles, USA I've lived in Los Angeles for 5 years. I'm a white male. I'm in my late 30s but could pass for 30. I'm not bad looking: I'm not fat: I work out (I don't have six pack abs and I don't tan though): I'm intelligent and witty. Since I've moved here: I haven't been able to sustain any serious dating. I'm not against dating other white guys: but I find Asians and Latinos far more attractive. I did date one Asian guy for a couple weeks: but he's such a complete emotional wreck that I couldn't take it. We're good friends. I would love to have a longterm relationship with an Asian guy. I agree that white men frequently consider it dating down as concerned with Asian men. This is more the case in middle America than the coasts where there are tons of Asians. However: when the tables are turned: I'm not seeing much more than a lot of talk. I've chatted with dozens and dozens of Asian guys. They just do not step up to the plate. I'm saying this from my own experiences. I could have a white hot online conversation for hours: then get a few token emails from him over the next day or two: then just never hear from him again. I've talked to some Asian guys over the course of YEARS: who always say they're looking for a relationship: then the talk disintegrates into nothing within a couple days. I've seen an almost unlimited conveyor belt of fickle behavior and even downright lying. My roommate is a dashing goodlooking Latino/White guy. He dated DOZENS of Asian guys over a 7 year period of time. Same problems. As soon as he starts really getting into them: they disappear. Finally: with all his good looks and charm: he found an Asian guy as his boyfriend (an average Asian guy: not a stud: not bad though). They have been together for a year. But this took 7 years. If what you're saying is true: someone like him should be able to make himself available: and have his pick of the highest breeding quality of Asian studs. He may have been able to have casual sex with the hottest guys: but all of those guys weren't offering anything more substantial. If there are all of these available hot Asian guys looking for white guys: why aren't they stepping up to the plate? It even seems to me that the older the Asian guy: the worse the problem. I might be able to see a 20 year old Asian for a couple dates before there was some sort of breakdown. A 40 year old Asian often won't give me the time of day online it seems. I got an online "wink" from a hunky 44 year old Asian guy last week. I followed up by sending him an email: to which I never heard from him again. Most of the Asian guys I've dated who really wanted to have a relationship with me were heavy in the emotion department and lagging in the sex. I can think of more than one guy who was "in love with" me: but we didn't have sex. Or the sex we had was great for them: but I had to either fall asleep with blueballs or go jerk off in the bathroom. Cuddling is great: but I really want a physical guy who's into pleasing me and vice versa. I even dated a nice Asian guy who only wanted to see me get off: but he just wanted to go to sleep and get cuddled by me. It's like why am I having sex with someone who doesn't want to be pleased as well. So: with emotional connection: there goes sexual connection. My regular sex buddies are all about sex: often VERY hot mindblowing sex. If I bring up dating: they're not having it. They just want to run by: have the 45 minutes of their life: then bail. When I lived in the midwest: there was almost no way a white guy would ever date an Asian guy. Possibly because there are 50 white guys for every Asian guy: and that Asian guy just looks so different from what they are used to. In Los Angeles: the Asian smooth and boyish appearance seems to be a plus. I see tons of Asian guys "interbreeding" with guys of every other type. There may be some discrimination but I'm not seeing it that much. There is also the issue of reverse discrimination. Tons of Asian guys feel like it's "selling out" to date a white guy. They won't date anyone who isn't Asian. Gay people are often Members Only who like to keep out anyone who doesn't fit the mold. If it's not race: it's age: or weight: or fitness: or mannerisms: or genre. I've never been smarter: better looking: more secure with my career and more emotionally stable in my life. But I feel that being in my late 30s: I have to put a LOT of effort into getting dates that don't go anywhere. So I'm wondering where all these great Asian guys are: who want white guys: who are complaining about discrimination: but who aren't delivering! I'm not blaming you personally or trying to put you on the defensive. I'm saying there are definitely two sides to this story. Name: Deddy City/Country: Bali, IND This is a great site. And whoever wrote this stories has some resemblance with my experiences. Being gay in Indonesia is not as easy as being gay in Sydney or Bangkok or anywhere else in the region, but being gay in Bali, well that's different matter. At the tender age of 19, I used to date White man only, regardless of their age and origin. But then, when I was 24, something inside me just clicked: I could not take this anymore. Many of the gays that I dated were either stocky, plump, over 50 or absolutely not attractive. Only few of them that is attractive and I have to say, the competition was fierce. Name: Unknown City/Country: Unknown An Asian (or other non-Caucasian) guy might not be my first choice, but only because of the sense of 'foreignness', not because I don't find them attractive. I just feel more 'comfortable' with a guy who is more like me (if he's more like me in height, build, age, etc, that's better too, so its not just race) But I have had sex with Asian guys, and I'd definitely do it with a black or Latino guy if the opportunity arose, I just might not pursue it, I'd be more comfortable if they pursued me... maybe that's what you need to do. Name: Felix City/Country: USA Your outlook on White people seems pretty negative. I am afraid that you will end up pretty lonely. Not all White men who are attracted to Asians are old or have a fetish. Maybe your attitude drives the good ones away. Have you "taken a look in the mirror" lately? I am not trying to be rude or mean, just helpful. Also, I find it insulting to be labeled "old" or a "fetish" person just because I like Asians. Name: bird1 City/Country: Oklahoma, USA I just read your comments about gay older men and younger Asian men. I do not object to your not liking to be with older men. However, I do think it is strange that in some respects you seem so accepting, and then when it comes to older white men with younger Asian men you must look for reasons why they like each other, hang ups that they must have. Since you certainly engage in activity that many people would judge disapprovingly, I am surprised that you make these judgments. None of us can explain our desires. We can only control them if they are evil. If they are out of the norm than we try to find a way to fulfill them. I have always liked young Asian men and I am so happy that there are young Asian men who like older white men. There is nothing wrong with that. We don't need to waste our time looking for reasons, unless we are analyzing any human behavior in a non-judgmental way. Hey, I still think you are a sweet, wonderful guy, and it would be a privilege to be your friend if I lived in your town. But hopefully I would have an Asian boyfriend who adored me, and you would have to deal with that. Name: Damien City/Country: Vancouver, CAN I have some Asian friends who are no more than that to me, (one in particular) who are really good looking and when they visit the tubs they often don't find what they want. It mystifies me that sometimes the blondes they like sometimes would pick me over them (I'm just average and don't like blondes at all, although I do like dark haired Caucasians, Hispanics.) The entire arrangement seems like a frustration merry-go-round. Name: DisturbedGayAsianSocialObserver City/Country: San Francisco, USA As a gay Asian American male, trained to think in Sociological terms, I have been quite disturbed by the place that Asian Americans hold within the gay community. A sense of being "exotified" permeates many gay Asians in America. This is not am exclusive issue in the gay community, but also in the society at large. Asian Americans are the exotic "other," members of the dominant society (Whites) who are attracted to Asians are deemed deviants. Asian Americans themselves participate in the denial of their own culture, often manifested in the form of rejection of gay people of their own ethnicity. I personally think that there lacks solidarity within the gay Asian community. The exclusion of Asian Americans as legitimate part of the gay community is a complicated issue. Some believe acceptance is built on tolerance, which is in alliance with the Asian emphasis on resilience and endurance of suffering. I however, believe in a more active role as a social observer and participant, in making social change. People need to speak out, not necessarily vocally with every chance he/she gets. But activism can also come in the form of writing, art forms, and more abstract ideological broadcasting. The very existence of this gay Asian male's journal/thoughts/observations to me is a form of activism, whether that was the author's intentions or not. I just want to express a token of appreciation to the author of this website, for projecting your voice. Such activism on the part of Asian American is influential and inspiring, and definitely sorely needed. Name: Unknown City/Country: Unknown I wish you would have more respect for yourself. You must be a walking pool of filth after so many visits to the bathhouses. You choose not to open your mind to other races, but yet you feel bitter that ALOT white men don't find you attractive. Seems like Poetic Justice is definitely serving you. Open your mind, man...But it seems you won't and thus...You will continue to be a lonely, little Asian going to bathhouse's 24/7. Kind of pathetic if you ask me.... Name: Gary City/Country: Manchester, GBR I enjoyed your pages. Very well written and interesting content. I just like men, regardless of their race :-) Actually, one of my nicest experiences ever was ending up in bed sandwiched between two 21-year-old Chinese students! I have white ancestry traceable back 150 years, but due to my features, a few times I have had guys ask me 'are you a bit foreign' or 'are you mixed-race'. I could tell by the tone that it was a problem to them. I find it weird. My impression is that it is a bigger problem in the USA too. I've been to a few saunas in my time and met some very nice guys there. Some of the best and most interesting. Name: Barney City/Country: Los Angeles, USA ITS NOT MY FAULT!!!!!!!!! I did not enslave you, I did not reject you, and I didn't make you gay or tell you to desire white guys. Apparently someone in your family's past decided they lived in the worst country on earth and begged to come here for a better life. If you hate white guys so much look elsewhere for your fulfillment, and if you dislike my country so much, leave! Since I happened to have been born here, I don't have YOUR convenience of blaming other people for my troubles. GET OVER YOUR SELF! Name: A Lone Black Voice City/Country: Charleston, USA I just finished reading your website and want to share how absolutely tired I am of hearing you (and some other Asian gay males I indirectly know) bemoan the love lost between you and WHITE GAY MALES. Perhaps one of the reasons white guys ignore you (to your belief) is the fact that they understand the value you put on them. From reading your excerpts, anyone can see that you put a high measure of value in white guys. Yet, in the same writings, you explain how attractive you are. If this is so, then why do you not find attractiveness in other Asians? Why do you not find attractive features in other races (Indian, Black, Latino etc.)? You see a white guy as a trophy willing to do almost anything for him (foot fetish story). But I digress. I have a boyfriend who happens to be white. And when I say white, I truly mean WASP white. He comes from a very upscale family but and a big BUT he understands that I will not adapt to his way of living. I am black and proud to be black. This is why he was attracted to me. And I don't play stereotypes with him; when I top he bottoms, when I bottom he tops. I was not out in the world looking for a white guy. I would have been just as happy with any good guy. He saw this and it attracted him to me. You treat a white guy like a trophy. Your dreams would be fulfilled if a white guy under 40 would accept you. Why do you need his acceptance? Why do you only see beauty in white guys? Do you not find Asians attractive? Do you not find Latinos attractive? Do you not find Blacks attractive? Do you not find Indians attractive? You can't on one hand say that the gay community is so superficial and then at the same type live a superficial life. I sometimes laugh to myself thinking that gay Asians are some of the funniest guys I have ever met. It is so blatantly obvious that white men are your key to being accepted -- the only true beauty you want to see. You say white guys who love Asians are rare. I counter you with this: Asian guys who love Asians/Blacks/Latinos are even more rare. You should reevaluate your positions posted on this website. Name: CJ City/Country: Texas, USA I'm a very light Hispanic guy, most people think I'm half a few think I'm white. I just wanted to say I find Asian guys VERY sexy! In fact that is kind-of a plus for me, but you're right, most of the white guys I know (save two who also love) don't think Asian guys are cute. I never really thought about how many guys look at me strange when they say I like Asian guys till I came by your site. But between you and me (and anyone else who reads this) you totally sound like a guy I'd date except for the age difference and the frequent bathhouse thing. Name: Paul City/Country: Hong Kong, CHN Having grown up in Vancouver and Toronto and been living in Asia for the past 4 years, I've noticed that all the white guys that do take notice of Asian guys are old and fat...and what's more sad is that good-looking and fit Asian guys will fall for them too! I'm not being racist and I find men of all race have their attractiveness...I find white guys ignoring Asians is understandable cause they may not understand our culture and background...but what I find more revolting is Asians turning fellow Asians down...I have Asian friends who would really rather sleep with a white grandfather of 60 than a fellow young and fit Asian...being Asian in a predominantly white world, if we cannot appreciate our own background how can we expect others to appreciate us?? Name: Jay City/Country: Singapore I read all the articles you wrote. They really sound very sincere. Just to let you know, I share your view about the Asian gay community. We are always striving to be the best that we do not know how to enjoy ourselves. My situation with yours is similar. I don't frequent pubs because I feel like in a meat market. I look younger than my age and people always say that I have an approachable face. Reading your story makes me realize that there is someone out there who shares almost the same view as me. This is truly heart gratifying By the way, I posted an ad on that personal sex website I mentioned at the beginning of this story. Since updating this essay, it's been nine months and I have yet to receive a response.  RELATED LINKS
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