Racism Or Preference?

Caucasian Men, Asian Men, Gay Men, Black Men, Multicutural Community, Gay Asian Bathhouse, Baths, Racism, Sexual Attraction

The first two entries were to lay down the foundation for my stories. Right now I want to tell you a little bit about myself. Even though I am in my thirties, I still look a decade younger. Anytime I meet someone new, the first question they ask is “What are you taking in college”, or “Do you go to school” I have this youthful, boyish face. Just last week someone thought I was 23. It has gotten to the point that whenever someone asks about my age, I usually say “Guess”.

I have a nice short haircut, dimples on both cheeks, and an okay body. (Nobodys Perfect) One person has described me as having a certain down&#45home, apple&#45pie stoic sweetness about myself. But when I go to the baths I usually go home empty handed. 99.9% of the time, I do not even have an encounter with anyone at the baths. Why would I have this problem? After describing myself, I must have tons of guys chasing after me. Because it is generally agreed, but unspoken in the gay community, that Asian Men are completely undesirable by gay men of any color, including their own.

There is still a racism problem in this country, which is most apparent in the gay community. Today&#39s racism isn&#39t blatant, but rather it is subtle. It is a back of peoples mind type of racism. People of all nationalities are being discriminated against every minute of every day. We all do it. No one is immune. The most ironic thing about the gay community is that we have fought for equality in the mainstream society. Yet in gay circles I have seen so many gay men discriminate against each other.

The baths is almost like a microcosm of a small town that consists of only gay men. It is a place where you can see every gay group imaginable under the same roof. No other gay environment offers such a wide variety of gay men in the same place, all interacting and playing sexual politics with one other. On any given night you can always see different types of men hooking up with one another. Chubs & Twinkies, Bears & Smoothies, Gym Bunnies & Trans, the list goes on. Despite all of these obvious differences, they all have one thing in common. All of these couples would be white. In fact, you will see more different &#39types&#39 of men hook up together at the baths, than an interracially mixed couple.

GWM (Gay White Men) don&#39t call this racism. Rather they call it a preference. They say physical and sexual attraction is not racial or racist. Not being able to work with, be friends, with or have anything to do with another visible minority is racist. Not wanting visible minorities sexually isn&#39t racist. It is a preference. Gay men aren&#39t attracted to women; so does that make all gay men sexist? Course not. So that is how GWM rationalize this preference.

This white preference that all gay men have stems from all of the media images we are bombarded with on a daily basis. The media, grocery store checkout magazines and the billboards along the highways have all screamed the same subliminal message. WHITE IS BEAUTIFUL. GWM have been conditioned since childbirth to be exclusively attracted to and only associate with there own race. It has become a subliminal preference. Take this analogy: All gay men accept being gay and attracted only to men. It is not a choice, as we were all born that way. Gay men can&#39t control being attracted to men, GWM can&#39t control being attracted to their own race. GWM were born that way. So it is a preference.

Even on a social level, many GWM will only talk to or associate amongst each other at the baths. For instance, I wrote about this Russian/German guy I see frequently at the baths in Making The Connection. Being closeted, he is desperate to connect with other gay men, even in a non&#45sexual way. I have seen him strike up conversations with every single WHITE guy at the baths. Young & Old, Fat & Thin, Blond, Brunette, the list goes on. He has talked to everyone, except me, and the other visible minorities at the baths. I have NEVER seen him strike up a conversation with anyone of a different color. We have never exchanged one word, yet we&#39ve seen each other at the baths every week for years. We have even been in the whirlpool together, and he never speaks to me. But yet when a white guy enters the pool, even if it is someone he has never seen before, he immediately starts a conversation with that person. There has even been a few times where he ignores me right to my face. I&#39m talking to a white acquaintance, and he&#39ll come up and start a conversation with that white person, and not even acknowledge my presence or even to say hello to me. Then he&#39ll leave saying goodbye to that white person, and I&#39m completely invisible to him. And let me assure you, he is not the only white person who has treated me that way, like I&#39m invisible. It has happened many times by many other white guys at the baths. So shyness is not an excuse.

See below to go to page two of this story

Gay, Asian, Caucasian, Interracial, Racism, Sexual Politics, Grindr, Male, Men, Discrimination, Sexual Preference, White

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154 comments for “Racism Or Preference?

  1. Ken Y
    November 14, 2014 at 8:03 PM

    I just found your web site. I’m Asian who frequents a Bathhouse, and could not agree more regarding the racism issue. I plan on purchasing your books. Thanks for having the courage to speak out.–Ken Y

  2. George
    June 12, 2014 at 4:13 PM

    Hi, Just my .02 here, but I’m a BI white male. Told I’m quite good looking, tall, naturally smooth, well hung, good shape and friendly. I love to kiss and cuddle. Being new to this part of my life (gay bathhouses). I was surprised to read these comments about the preferences of most gwm.

    Years ago I had an encounter with my first Asian man and with one touch of his very soft skin on his cute little ass, I was amazed how good it felt. Never had I felt skin so soft on a male. Even beat most females I’ve been with. Wow that was amazing. I’ll never forget that.

    I guess soft skin is big turn on for me. Perhaps being truly BI, I appreciate that more than most other men. If also found black males can sometimes have great skin too. Don’t get me wrong, I love a good heavy-duty sex romp, but after cuddling next to an Asian man is great.

    Well I may be an exception and not trying to brag, but I do love it all. I am a very passionate person and love to kiss. My first real man-to-man kiss was with an Asian man too. at the time I was in total denial of my sexuality and the fact that this kiss turned me on was very troubling to me for years. Today I am fortunate for the experience as it was part of the coming out process for me. Trust me, it took almost a nuclear explosion for me to come out. Well if you count sex with hundreds, perhaps thousands off of men in bookstores and theaters, two years of psychotherapy, well that’s what it took lol.

    Anyway love those soft compact Asses. Please keep coming back!

  3. T.Z
    March 28, 2014 at 8:44 PM

    I went to a bath house in Japan with a Korean friend. I found that no one was interested in me. My Korean friend told me it was because many Japanese men perceive Caucasians as dirty & diseased.

    In my experience in western bath houses Asian men tend to enter your personal space without permission. They seem to attempt to grope you to show interest. This turns me off. Most Caucasian men show interest through eye contact or body language. Asian men need to understand the social conventions and boundaries of the dominant culture – just as a Caucasian man would be expected to in Asia.

  4. March 14, 2014 at 2:26 PM

    I found your story “Racism” interesting . . . just as there are stereotypes about Asians only liking older men . . . there are stereotypes about young white men only liking other white men. I’m 36 and I’m in a long term relationship with an Asian man (41). White men who like Asians are out there . . . we may be hard to find. I’d say the problem is racism.Thanks for your stories.

  5. Terry
    March 11, 2014 at 7:38 PM

    Your stories are very interesting and bring attention to the fact that there is, contrary to popular belief, plenty of racial prejudice in the gay community. But I do have to admit that I take issue with some of things you have written. First off you have repeatedly mentioned that most minority gays are chasing after white guys and that is just total bullshit. I am a 23-year-old black male from Miami and most of the black and Latino guys I have met tend to date exclusively men from their “race.” I have no problem dating men of whatever race but and I have dated white guys my gay male friends mostly black and Latin friends are not into interracial dating and it certainly isn’t because they get with white guys. I understand and have seen with my own eyes how difficult things can be for some gay Asian male but I think it has more to do with those men than with white guys or racism. How the hell can those Asians who are only into whites or white-Latinos complain about racism when they themselves exclude blacks, Latinos of color, native Americans, and worst of all their own race?

    You, my friend are a perfect example of this. You keep writing about racism and prejudice but you don’t seem to have dealt with your own racism and self-loathing, despite your honesty on the subject. A perfect example of this is the little poll you have on your website. Why is it that you direct the question exclusively towards your white visitors? Doesn’t it interest you how many other Asians like yourself are into white or how blacks, Latinos, etc. like Asians, whites, whatever.

    Do yourself a favor my friend and take the time to deal with your own self-esteem issues. When you do this it will be a lot easier for you to find the man you are looking whether he be black, white, brown, or hell who knows maybe even Asian.

    • F.A.
      March 13, 2014 at 6:41 AM

      To Terry: get the hell outta this site ya fool. These stories have nothing to do with YOUR kind. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT IS TO BE A GAY ASIAN AND NEVER WILL SO SHUT THE F UP. I wont pretend to be black and talk about your life or situations. Just because you disagree with the author of the diaries doesn’t mean that the stories aren’t true…because everything the author says IS TRUE and it happens whether you believe it or not. IT IS RACISM. Why the hell are you even reading this site anyway? You have no worthy opinion on these issues Mr. Black Man Terry… you have no clue what the author and many other gay Asians have gone thru so get your fugly bs opinions and take them to a gay blacks website where you can talk about what happens to your race of gays. TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU KNOW WHICH IS NOT GAY ASIAN TOPICS YOU FREAK.

      • Charles
        March 13, 2014 at 2:43 PM

        F.A. I guess you’re going to tell me to shut the fuck up as well, but I thought your reply to Terry was quite racist. This isn’t a gay Asian website, it’s a bathhouse website that is written by a guy who is Asian (north) American and informed by his viewpoint. If Asians can only write Asian websites, that’s being pretty restrictive. And if blacks can only post on black websites, that’s restrictive as well. And I guess I’m trying to lord it over you because I’m white. And no, I don’t want to date you (personally) any more than you’d want to date me. Chill out, man!

        • F.A.
          March 13, 2014 at 7:46 PM

          Charles gets your white trash ass outta this site too. What’s your business being in this site anyway? If you are a rice queen then get a life… if you are a fat headed white trash loser then get over yourself cuz you are worthless and so is your opinion especially on these topics white trash punk. Oh and all the other posts before Terry’s post under F.A. applies to YOU and YOUR kind as well. Hopefully you will be able to read it because you know what kind of garbage you are.

  6. F.A.
    March 10, 2014 at 7:34 PM

    White people gay or straight will always be racist towards our people no matter it be the racism of hatred or racism of actually chasing them because of their race alone which is also racism. Just read what that previous person who wrote under “Anonymous white male” many pages back. The stereotypes that he mentioned and the feelings that he clearly stated loud and clear about all gay Asians is the way every other race feels about us Asians. Trust me all white people feel the same way as that person who wrote under “Anonymous white male”… even some more Americanized Asian people feel the same way and hate their own race as well. The only solution is to hang out with Asian pride minded people gay or straight!!! White people are the most racist race in the whole world. Just look at whites history and what they have done to non-whites. America alone is the powerful racist country in the world along with Canada, Australia, and many more. America built its power from racism PERIOD. Just read the history books…. No not the ones written by white Americans because they always seem to forget to mention all the racism and disgusting things they did to Africans and Asians in America throughout the history to build its now most powerful country based on racism and white power like KKK. As Asian people we should all realize that the person who wrote under “Anonymous white male” is not alone in his thoughts and feelings. THERE ARE MORE PEOPLE LIKE “ANONYMOUS WHITE MALE” than you think! Do not be jaded and go into denial about what I am saying because it is true. I applaud all the sticky rice Asians in Hawaii and in Asian countries and 1 little establishment in a Canadian city that welcomes people like us. Don’t be a potato queen any longer people. WHITE TRASH IS NOT WORTH A THING.

    • F.A.
      March 10, 2014 at 7:45 PM

      And another thing I forgot to mention is that if all you potato queens don’t wake up and notice that white people are not worth the desperation and adoration that you give them then you will never be able to love yourself and they will never love you. Sticky rice and proud Asian people will love you for who you are and love you as a person. If you happen to be with a white fool then most likely that white fool is using you for a short while just to get off because he couldn’t find another white guy or is such a loser that no one else will go near them. So they search for the Asian guys that are potato queens because they will say yes to any white trash loser. Just look at one of the past guest book signers that said he goes for “Asian guys because Asian guys are easier to pick up” and they are easy in general. White trash people like him are not worth selling your soul to. Rice queens are disgusting as well… read every article about rice queens out there and you will know what I mean. White people think they are the best race and that their views matter most so why would you want to sell yourself to evil disgusting white trash that will never look to you as an equal. A white guy will only look to you as a servant or maid or a pet or a slave that he owns. That is the white mans way PERIOD. Gay Asians may be the outcasts of the queer world but we don’t have to outcast each other as well. There are many groups of queer Asian pride minded people that have their own hangouts and clubs and places where they are not looked down on the way white people do. Search for them in your town if there are any. But if there aren’t any then it’s in your best interest to move to a city or another country where there are more places like the one I described. Whites are not worth your self-respect. Respect yourself and don’t chase after white guys like they’re a fountain of water and you are a dehydrated homeless person. White people are not to be in a relationship with. Work with them or be friends with them or live around them but don’t chase after them because they are not worth the trouble they cause.

  7. March 7, 2014 at 5:29 PM

    Just read your interesting article about Racism or Preference…. it seems unfair to me that you focus on white racism and ignore other forms. I am white but lived in Japan for 7 years; in Japan, the Japanese look down on and discriminate against all other races. There are Japanese gay bars, clubs and saunas in most cities that ban non-Japanese from entering (i.e. whites, blacks, Hispanics etc)…they are quite proud of it, and have big signs at the doorways displaying the fact. They allow in other Asians (spuriously arguing that it is because of cultural similarities), and curiously even allow in Japanese-Americans, which shows it really is just all about skin colour. From my experience, Korea and the Koreans are much the same. To some extent I sympathize with you….for a long time I only liked Japanese/Oriental guys, but was endlessly told by cute guys that they didn’t sleep with foreigners etc, that foreigners had AIDS (which is a joke because Japanese guys rarely use condoms for fucking with each other, and I am negative and have never fucked without one)…. anyway my point is that sometimes you have to accept the world the way it is. Rejection is never easy but at the end of the day sexual preference, even if it is informed by latent racist attitudes and prejudices, is still sexual preference and you cannot force people to sleep with you when they don’t want to. Don’t waste too much time worrying about what you can’t have…just go out and hang around with people of whatever race that go for Asian guys and who care about more than skin colour … or do you disparage and criticize these too for being racist, if they only go for Asian guys?

  8. March 5, 2014 at 8:46 PM

    Nice webpage. I am a GWM who likes Asians. So don’t feel like all of us are too old. You seem like a nice guy. If you ever make it to Chicago, please look me up. I’ll send you a picture too if you email me. (Sorry only G-availble)!

  9. Mr. BottomCumm
    May 14, 2013 at 2:57 PM

    Racist or personal preference assumptions. On individual pursuit: I read basically. American entrenched ideology, “United We Stand”?

    Conformed to assimilated thought opposed. To subjective nonsense,I find certain. Behaviors distasteful and unclothe does. So I’m considered prejudice yes, expect this. On attractions never had desire sleep. Twink,Transgender or African American men. Later, problem there lost out for. Personal sexual pleasures audacity write. Those not incline to dine or refine. To there nonsense, usually cruising! Always demeanor’s__effeminate so true! Tried reading,this harsh response. Natural sense because individuals dislikes. Your racism I prefer hung White cock! Yes, Mr. Jocks brush off Latins,Old Queens,Asians and Blacks. Most jokes refuse allow them. Entrance to use my body article. Is bias cease using color. Personal choice it’s my sexual choice. Can’t attract men not my problem. Black guys are racist saying. Whites are prejudice! San Francisco nice city until Gay trash! Destroyed trust!

  10. Rob Shilling
    February 6, 2013 at 4:17 PM

    Nobody should have to make excuses for their sexual preference. Neither because you are a man and find another man attractive, nor because you are white and only find other whites attractive.

    Human desire isn’t politically correct. Sexual desire is a touchstone of a racial truth that seems to have become prohibited in other areas.

    I’m going to be very honest here, without apologies. Personally I find South Asians from India and Sri Lanka and Somalis repulsive. And so what! It’s what I feel. I like certain orientals, Koreans and Kyrgyzstan, but not so much Han Chinese or Indonesians. They are still way above the negroid races and Indians, in my book. But at the top are whites, with just behind them Arabs and Latins – although the whiter Latins are much preferred to mestizos and mulatto.

    There is nothing that can be done to change the racial pecking order. Sex is honest like that.

  11. Oscar Ramirez
    August 12, 2012 at 7:37 PM

    I’m an Hispanic bi male and I prefer because of my experiences that my first choice are black men not because of their size but because I am a devoted bottom and they look for me and treat me like they really, really want me. The others, its a little more work to hook up with them. Because of this I feel I can connect better with black men. I am not “races” I have tried being with other races but it does not work. They seem to be very picky. Sometimes?

  12. Lee
    August 5, 2012 at 11:32 PM

    Very interesting post – as a fellow East Asian I feel you have crystallised a substantial part of my thoughts over the past few years. I am based in Europe but the dynamic is similar here to what you write.

    One thing I have come to realise is that (East) Asians do seem to be near the bottom of the gay pecking order; aside from being blanked in venues, consider the amount of gay hookup or dating web site profiles that specify ‘no (East) Asians’. Fair enough you might think, until you try to think back to the last time a profile said ‘no blacks’, ‘no hispanics’ or the like. Are we our own worst enemies? What does everyone else think?

    By the way, I find your dimples quite aesthetic too!

  13. January 18, 2012 at 8:25 PM

    I just read your essay entitled “Racism Or Preference? (At The Baths)” and I wanted to let you know that it was an incredibly interesting read. I am a white male, and I’ve always felt that I’m one of the very few who doesn’t place high importance the ethnicity of my sexual partners. If I find someone attractive (looks OR personality), I’ll be interested, regardless of such superficial details.

    I have never really heard much talk about racism in the gay community from anybody other than black men, though I had noticed the vast majority of people who would discredit people for being Asian. Even some of my heterosexual friends say things like “Asians are so weird” if I show them a K-pop video or a photo of an Asian model (male or female) that I find attractive.

    I am glad to see topics such as this coming out of the closet, so to speak. People come up with such terrible excuses for not being attracted to non-white people, and act as if there’s no possible way to learn to love people for who they are, not what they are. When I was a kid I wouldn’t eat anything other than white bread, because other bread looked weird. Eventually I grew up and realized that other breads are actually better for me, because they have more nutrients in them that aren’t bleached out. I feel that it’s the same for people – to learn about other cultures and have friends regardless of ethnicity means that I learn many things outside of the whitewashed suburban world (I grew up in a small town with a majority of white people) and because of that I feel that my life is more fulfilling and meaningful.

    Sorry for the long message, but I do feel passionately about removing discrimination from society. xo Andrew

    p.s. your dimples are gorgeous!

  14. April 30, 2011 at 8:44 PM

    I just read your diatribe on how racist we GWM are. I normally don’t comment on things like this but blaming a GWM for NOT being attracted to you is a bit lame. EVERYONE has there own idea of what sexy is. I am a fit muscular athlete that loves, Latin, black, middle eastern, and white men but that does NOT mean I like ONLY THEM and only them for their skin color. There are many of each that I DON’T find attractive and many that DON’T find me attractive either and I DON’T CRY RACISM. I am 6′ 6″, and 225# and when I go to the baths I get some attention but also I get IGNORED TOO…. that’s LIFE. Also, I always politely decline an advance from someone I don’t find hot; whether Asian or any other race. However, I sometimes need to get more aggressive with the decline before it sinks in. MANY TIMES its the Asian men that DON’T accept my polite decline and continue to persist at me and grab. So sometimes those responses are from men like me who have tried NICE and get ignored and have to resort to aggressiveness to get the point across. You also mention that Asians are racist to other Asians. I believe that is your main challenge. Also, you declare that Asian men are predominantly passive in bed, which is MORE of the reason I tend not to connect with an Asian man (not because of his skin color but because of his desires which are the same as mine). I have been called ROUND EYE by a few Asian men in an airport and I found this very rude and racist but I don’t go on and on about it in a silly blog. I however, am a civil man and will acknowledge and speak to anyone within a conversation and NOT completely ignore anyone. That man’s behavior is unacceptable. I concur. I don’t condone racism but crying racism cause you don’t get what you want at a Bathhouse is a little exaggerated. Instead, work out, get fit, and love yourself inside and out and those you desire will find you. This bathhouse blues stuff is so unattractive and passive aggressive.

    • August 12, 2012 at 2:22 PM

      I’m a GWM, and I can say that when I have tried to hook up with people online or in real life, the hottest and most eligible men who would give me a chance were all non-white — black, Hispanic, and Asian. I’ve gone out or hooked up with a few men that I would have thought were out of my league, especially in terms of their gorgeous bodies, who were Asian or black. It took me a while to realize that this was because non-white men are treated as low on the totem pole, and hence, by comparison, I have an advantage. I don’t know all about gay Asians and can’t account for all of their behavior, but I’m sure some of them are aggressive because they have to search for someone commensurate to their own level who will not ignore them for being Asian.

      “Also, you declare that Asian men are predominantly passive in bed, which is MORE of the reason I tend not to connect with an Asian man” —

      This sounds very racist to me. Maybe most Asians prefer to be passive, but I would bet that most gay men of all backgrounds are passive, the rest of us just put more effort into hiding it, coming from more macho cultures.

      Ultimately, I want to do better in my love and sex life, and can’t really say I’ve found satisfaction, but I will suggest, if you loosen up and stop worrying about people’s supposed “races” and all the baggage that goes with that, you’ll find there are a lot of hot men you could be getting together with.

  15. James
    April 30, 2011 at 10:10 AM

    I just read your diatribe on how racist we GWM are. I normally don’t comment on things like this but blaming a GWM for NOT being attracted to you is a bit lame. EVERYONE has there own idea of what sexy is. I am a fit muscular athlete that loves, Latin, black, middle eastern, and white men but that does NOT mean I like ONLY THEM and only them for their skin color. There are many of each that I DON’T find attractive and many that DON’T find me attractive either and I DON’T CRY RACISM. I am 6′ 6″, and 225# and when I go to the baths I get some attention but also I get IGNORED TOO…. that’s LIFE. Also, I always politely decline an advance from someone I don’t find hot; whether Asian or any other race. However, I sometimes need to get more aggressive with the decline before it sinks in. MANY TIMES its the Asian men that DON’T accept my polite decline and continue to persist at me and grab. So sometimes those responses are from men like me who have tried NICE and get ignored and have to resort to aggressiveness to get the point across. You also mention that Asians are racist to other Asians. I believe that is your main challenge. Also, you declare that Asian men are predominantly passive in bed, which is MORE of the reason I tend not to connect with an Asian man (not because of his skin color but because of his desires which are the same as mine). I have been called ROUND EYE by a few Asian men in an airport and I found this very rude and racist but I don’t go on and on about it in a silly blog. I however, am a civil man and will acknowledge and speak to anyone within a conversation and NOT completely ignore anyone. That man’s behavior is unacceptable. I concur. I don’t condone racism but crying racism cause you don’t get what u want at a Bathhouse is a little exaggerated. Instead, work out, get fit, and love yourself inside and out and those you desire will find you. This bathhouse blues stuff is so unattractive and passive aggressive.

  16. Elodie Cyma
    March 24, 2011 at 10:16 AM

    So I’ve never been to a bathhouse but I read your article on race, the first one, and I can’t speak for others, but I have to disagree. I am a GWM and I’ve had Asian, Black, Latino and White boyfriends. None of them were better or worse than others. If I was in a situation where I honestly had to pick I’d probably pick an Asian guy over a white guy because I find most white guys to be stuck up and annoying and the Asians I dated smelled better. I don’t know if that’s a generational thing, regional, or if I’m just randomly weird but there you go.

  17. ChrisC
    January 26, 2011 at 10:22 AM

    I am both dumb-founded and surprised on the behavior of gay Asian men.

    As for the author of this site: I should say you did a very good job … But don’t be so hard on yourself!

    I always wondered what would happen if I ran into YOU in a bathhouse? I am sure I would be attracted, at least the picture with your “dimples” looked really cute … But would you say hello to me or ignore me?

    I think the latter :(

    First of all, I have been through the same BS you have been through – And I am NOT Asian.

    Yes, indeed … It hurts. A lot. Seeing the guy turn away. Seeing the attitude. Seeing the “cold shoulder”. Touching his hand and being slammed … Or even worse, hearing “Don’t F—ing touch me”!

    I think you got the Asian thing all wrong in a sense. Being cursed to rejection and attitude is NOT because you are Asian … It;s because you are GAY – Period.

    With online dating, I see differences. I like the Asian men, but I see many on there going with ONLY their own age (for example, a 21 y/o with a person similar age, and such) … Yet, take a trip to the baths, and I see a “21 y/o” going with 60++

    Maybe you should avoid the baths altogether?

    I think the rules are twisted and different there … Non intuitive, weird, and superficial so bad you’ll be convinced your’e “ugly” when you are not!

    My main point here is that the way you describe “Asians Vs Whites” in your write ups are a bit biased towards the untrue fact that whites “hate” Asians.

    There’s something for everyone. Trust me, you have NO IDEA how many times I heard “I hate Blacks” and “I don;t date non-Cuban guys” in my neck of the woods.

    Open your mind, and your heart.

  18. TS
    December 30, 2010 at 4:43 PM

    I’m a GWM who, I would say, is not a rice queen. I grew up in the rural South and I don’t feel I possess the racism you talk about in your entries. Out of the sexual experiences I’ve had I’ve been with Asians, Whites, and Spaniards, and not because there weren’t other races around. Just thought I’d leave my opinion here to be counted.

  19. Another GAM
    December 27, 2010 at 4:44 PM

    I noticed the “racism” you talked about, but it hasn’t appeared to be as bad for me. Recently I just went to Toronto to visit two bathhouses for the first time (actually my first bathhouse visits ever). I wasn’t particularly looking for sex but just checking the places out. I got enough hit-on I think. You are a self-respected person, but I can feel your anger and lack of confidence while I read your articles. It might be better if you stop going to bathhouse, if it is such a disappointing place. We all just want more fun in our lives, right?

  20. Miami Italian
    September 28, 2010 at 4:54 PM

    I got one thing to say about you so called “Asian” people – Chill the $#@% out and lighten the %$#@ up!

    Stop prowling for old men and people your age (20’s and under). That’s not only disgusting, but it really enforces the “old man” stereotype you always complain about.

    I was at the local club here a month or so ago, and I was one white guy, amongst about 20 Hispanics, most of them Cuban.

    One Asian man walked in, and he was about 40 y/o (may age or so). He sat in the corner, all miserable, shy (or down right IGNORANT to be exact). If I (or anyone under 60) sat next to him … It was like some “hot plate” made him jump up and walk out as if he saw a ghost.

    Not taking that as a “message” … I made the mistake of touching his hand as he passed me. I wanted to make sure he knew I was interested in him, and I found him to be “cute”.

    He snapped around, stingingly punching (not slapping – Punching) my hand away and saying, “Don’t F— touch me”! I was so upset. I walked in front of him, and DEMANDED and answer on WHY he would treat me so BAD.

    Maybe he thought I was his ex, or “the Cuban who robbed him”. I don’t know, but I saw the evil and angry look in his eyes. I never seen a “stranger” so mad.

    I affronted him again, and told him “I simple no-thank-you would have been nicer!” and after him walking away, with not a single word and a long face … Only the words “You fucking dog-eating Gook” got his attention for a record-breaking 2 seconds.

    I am sorry, but I LOST IT when I was treated with such a “Hate at first sight” response.

    Later on, I saw him sitting on some old 70+ 300+ LB Jewish man like if he was his slave. I guess that answered my “question”.

    Take a look at YOURSELVES (you know who you “stuck-up” Asians with issues are) in the mirror … You really should LIKE what you see…

    I LIKED what I saw, but why was I treated like I broke a law?

    • Miami Italian
      December 10, 2010 at 5:11 PM

      Good day all … I apologize for being So harsh on my last couple of posts. I learned something highly important the past week.

      First of all, my company sent me out of town I (reluctantly) went out to a local Bathhouse, with very little expectation. I saw a LOT of Asian guys there, many of them younger than me, and expected (or assumed) many of them to just waltz right by me.

      Boy was I wrong. 17 (yes seventeen – I counted) approached me, all offering me either a drink (there’s a bar there) and / or me going to his room.

      All in all, I “topped” about 5 Asian guys, a RECORD for me, within about 4 hours time. All were NICE. All were CUTE. All were YOUNGER than me (one was 22, the oldest 38). I am 41.

      Most importantly, I was appreciated for ME, and there was no attitude. No pushing away. No F— you type of stuff I heard for YEARS in S FL. Just a friendly smile going from eye to slanted eye ;-)

      I am ashamed, and embarrassed (both from the way I was treated (in FL) and assuming Asians were like that EVERYWHERE).

      I apologize, as I really need to consider moving (or at least temporarily re-locating) as it appears south FL is the problem (not ALL Asians in general).

      I again apologize for attacking and generalizing about the Asian community here in the USA, using the (corrupt) city of Miami, FL as an AWFUL example.

  21. Bo
    August 16, 2010 at 4:55 PM

    First, I’d like to thank everyone for voicing their opinion on this subject. Second, I’d like to point out that I just turned 21 recently, so I may be green, but my opinion should still be valid and somewhat enlightening for people out there watching an emerging younger generation.

    I don’t consider myself really good looking, not because I have a self-esteem or confidence issue. I just don’t feel vain, and I know there are many better looking guys out there. However, that doesn’t stop the hundreds of men (young and old, of all races … Asian included) from hitting on me and asking me out, or offering $2000 to give me a one time bj. Why is that? I don’t know what goes on in their head, but I think that a lot of people have an Asian fetish these days, especially b/c many good-looking Asian people appear on the news, YouTube, movies, and Asian dramas imported from Asia. And if you have ever been to Asia in the last few years, you know there are some serious eye candies over there. And we’re talking about hundreds of guys who belong on TV screens. That’s just the new generation that I’m living in. The majority of us fit what westerners define as the model minority in terms of brain, personality, attitude, competence, virility, wealth, lifestyle, habits, and physique.

    I admit there are still Asians who will date only whites. I was once in that position, not because of what the author described, but b/c I grew up around mostly non-Asians and could only apply the concept to beauty from what I experienced to whites (media really has a powerful influence there).

    The first guy I dated was actually white. The story??? 1) At the time, I didn’t want my parents to be able to communicate with my bf, so non-Asian was the best choice. 2) I pitied him because he didn’t have anybody. Was he good-looking and fit? Not according to what people tell me. But I wasn’t (and am still not) a picky person. It has always been about personality to me. Why? I was raised that way. Simple. I found him cute sometimes and his personality agreeable, so I dated him.

    I never thought I wanted to date an Asian for the parental interference reason that I described, but things changed dramatically when I met my current bf, who is 35yo. He’s 14.5 years older, same ethnicity, also speaks the ethnic language, same stubborn ass personality as my own sibling. He’s the antithesis of everything I wanted when I was younger. Guess what? After falling for him, I came to realize that I like older Asian guys (I still find non-Asians attractive, but don’t really want to date them for anymore). Thank goodness my bf doesn’t look as old as his real age is (his body, on the other hand, tells a completely different story unfortunately). He thinks that he’s below average and I’m above average in terms of look, but I find him the most adorable person (and cuter than myself whenever I’m with him for some reason) on the planet and the only one I want to enter me. We’ve had our ups and downs with him breaking my heart once, but we’re still together. People say I’m a big time idiot who has bad taste (he agrees), but I believe I’m just an average Joe who fell for another average Joe : )

    What my experiences boil down to is that the time has changed. The younger generation is making more ground in the gay US of A, and I have seen many many more Asians that only want to date other Asians than the author believes, so DON’T BE SO PESSIMISTIC!! Travel, take another look around, and inspire your readers with a new outlook.

    P.S. Sorry for being long-winded.

  22. Casper
    August 2, 2010 at 3:44 PM

    Your articles of racist in gay community are so true!!! I am an Asian. I am now traveling in South Africa Cape Town. I went to a famous local gay bar once. I stayed there for 3 hours. no white talked to me. only friendly black gays and a lady talked to me and introduced me to their friends. this is my first time went to a gay bar. but I believe I had the worst experience. There was a white guy who spoke to me”I’m not interested” even I didn’t say a single word to him! I just looked at him for a second and he said that. Moreover, when I was passing by a white crowd,(I was not trying to hit on anyone in that group), there was one white guy who just literally pushed me away really hard. I was so pissed off but I couldn’t say anything. I was the only Asian guy there that night. such a horrible night.

  23. Starkiller
    July 21, 2010 at 2:01 PM

    Having read the racism article there are two things I’d like to say. First the article is very true. I’ve noticed this a lot in my small town of Sarnia. Second I would totally hookup with an Asian guy though age would be the determining factor as that is my “racist” preference :) You have said you’ve never had anyone in his early 20’s sign and state that without been a rice queen. Well I don’t know what a rice queen is (I’m new to all this) but I can say I don’t look at anyone different. I think it would be just as hot to do an Asian as it would to do a black or any other race. I like diversity. And white people can be boring lolz. I’m 21. :) Hope this restores your faith in us white guys. There are a select few of us that are different. Of course if you Asians only bottom that would be a problem. I don’t top (lolz):S

  24. July 20, 2010 at 2:03 PM

    I really enjoyed your essay on racism. I must say I feel they same way at times. When I first realized I was gay, all I had was XY magazine and porn sites that only had white men. After many years of only having white gay media, I started to think I am ugly an undesirable because I’m black. Even among the blacks, guys either prefer a GWM or a thug… After a while it became exhausting trying to find love or even sex being invisible. On sites like dudesnude or a4a I rarely get messages or responses unless it’s an older white guy. It seems that the gay community as a whole only Cherishes what is youthful and white. Thank you for writing your essays, in a way it’s great to know someone out there feels the same way I do.

  25. Two Cents
    June 12, 2010 at 3:47 PM

    A lot of this Asians being unattractive thing is their own making. After living in the US for a few years, I found a very clear pattern that unfortunately most Asian, including those US born, are still clueless about: begging on your knees, wistful eyed, saliva drooling, and you drive away the ugliest, most desperate guy!

    Yep, that’s the American way, folks. Because according their logic, you are then giving them license to do whatever they want and they, most Americans, simply cant resist a chance to get to reject! Logical? Not in my Asian book, but that’s the western “culture”, more so in the US than say Europe.

    Sadly, so many clueless Asians “continue to do the same thing again and again”, that it is now already too late. Asians are easy, open to you any time, any looks, and any age, is by now an entrenched image that one rare, occasional good-looking guy with the “right” (American) attitude doesn’t help any more. One ready example: your very website here, pouring out your heart, profusely, untiringly, unreservedly, yearningly, openly, publicly about how as an Asian you’d love but cannot find a white guy who would be attracted to you-from my one minute glimpse of a page it also seems you poured your heart to a non-Asian about this misery, right?

    Who suggested white=Asian speak page. Well, you then have successfully dressed up a prince as a street beggar, and you want to sleep with a beggar yourself? In doing so you in fact also helped confirmed, laid bare (whether true or not) the idea that all Asians are desperate, and now look what have you and so many others have done to them! Hahaha. I see in porno’s certain type of guys (minority, I am sorry I have to be honest here) who literally make me puke! Yet hunky, handsome white males willingly submit themselves (Yeah, not just one) like a dog. They drool, suck and then turn around to give up their plump Asses. Why? The right attitude (ever heard of reverse psychology, dude? the more you appear confident and not begging, the more you attract) that is propped by the notion that they are all horse-hung (not true), all tops and macho (again not true). In America, an image blinds everyone, creates a trend, before long everyone wants to get on this bandwagon, be “fashionable”, be “cool”, even if it demands a proud handsome guy to be fucked like a dog on camera, he wills himself into thinking that he’s won admiration of the whole world. That’s also how presidents get elected.

    America is a shallow place with shallow, easily maneuvered people, but the maneuvering is not simple, it takes resources and control of the media, it takes individuals’ “helpful details” like everyday attitude, so on. If one day the porn industry decides to make Asians super sexy, your luck is in! But then it does take more people (Asians) willing to take porn jobs, or, you need even more media campaign to convince.
    Now, I happen to find Latin’s and Arabs and such very sexy, and much, much more down to earth (only in sex) so when I was young (middle aged now) I had much luck with them (not saying you should try too, hahha). As to handsome Asians, I find them marking up their standards with other, equally handsome Asians, and that’s their own loss.

  26. On The Road
    May 25, 2010 at 3:48 PM

    A GAM must be a modern phenomenon; certainly sounds like GAMs over 40 are a rarity. The reality is that one-day the young GAM will become a senior citizen; how will you lecture them then. What is the scene for seniors who are Asian?

  27. Rick
    May 10, 2010 at 3:48 PM

    I really don’t know what the hell is going on this website. All I’ve noticed is a lot of anger towards other GAMs for self-loathing, and a lot of bitterness towards white men for not choosing you to have sex with. Perhaps you have a point about a GWM’s taste for flesh in his own hues, and yet all the images on this site are of gorgeous white boys as you preach the beauty of Asian men and how we should interact with each other more. As a reader I’m confused about the precise point to your many angry “essays”. Perhaps there are still some underlying issues that you’re unaware of yet.

    Asian men are hot, as I am one, and goddamn it I’m hot. In the bathhouse with my clothes off I rarely have trouble hooking up with cute men of any race, but then I’m not angry with them all and perhaps that makes me just a bit more approachable. Of course there are other factors, too. I also live in a major U.S. city where people are educated and perhaps less prejudiced as the result of education. It isn’t a criticism on your opinion, just an honest report of my personal experience. If someone doesn’t want you, move on. Trust me, there are plenty of cute white men who are into hot boys of color.

    Don’t hate ourselves, and don’t hate others either because they are not as enlightened as we are. No one can help who is attracted to. In the end, it’s only sex if you’re seeking in a bathhouse. There are far more exciting things when you seek elsewhere.

    You DO make a very good point about Asian men going for older, less attractive white men, though. I’ve certainly seen and been disgusted with the sight numerous times. We need to behave as if we’re NOT 2nd class citizens ourselves if we want others to view us as such.

    Peace to you all and good luck in the dating game; hope everyone’s happy in the end.

  28. May 4, 2010 at 2:07 PM

    Hi – gr8 blog/ site… but I do think you are over generalizing just a little ala the whole white guys not liking Asian guys thing. I am a 35-year-old Aussie guy who has had three long-term relationships (2 yrs+), one with a white guy, one with a Chinese-Vietnamese guy, and one with a Filipino guy. I am normally attracted to Asian guys and generally, this is reciprocated. No, not 18 year olds, but guys of all ages… And I see many other guys ‘mixing it up’ (so to speak), with the vast majority not being the 60 yr old GWM 18 yr old GAM paradigm. Maybe things are different in the US – but here in Australia, I just don’t see this as a massive issue. Not saying some white guys here wouldn’t discriminate against Asian guys etc, but to say 99%… jeeze….

  29. An_Asian_Mans_NightMare
    April 1, 2010 at 4:01 PM

    OK, I read your stuff, so here it is as I feel. So don’t get offended, as it’s nothing personal.

    All I got to say about GAM, as beautiful as they are, is that sometimes I just want to deck them right between their slanted eyes. Well, not really that harsh, but at least slap them and / or shake them as to get at least some sense into them ;-(

    Yes, the frustration on my side is there. The low self esteem of GAM, and the attraction I see with younger GAM towards white men MUCH older than them. You Asian guys hate it so much when someone calls you a “potato queen”? Oh, well … YOU named it, you claimed it!

    I will put forth ONE experience (of many) of the “young for old” dilemma I have to put up with GAM 99.9% of the time at my local baths. I am not talking just young (in his 20’s), but pretty buff and hot (muscular) build as well. This “to die for” Asian man would simply scoot over (away) from me when I sat down, or down right walk away, giving me a dirty look in the process.

    My “first thought” was: “OK I am 39, he’s 20 or 25, I can understand that”. But my jaw dropped when he goes down orally on a 300 LB old Jewish guy in his 60’s. I tried to join them, and he pushes me away so hard I nearly fall down with the words “Back off!” … Just before the “old man” began bare backing this guy, I could not see (or eat my heart out) anymore – Enough was enough!

    What is it with this behavior? This dude was in his 60’s, overweight, bald, gray hair, and probably not even worth while (he drove a Chevy Malibu for Christ sakes)!

    OK, so I am sure you are ready to say: “This was just ONE example”, right? Not really.

    This happens about 90% of the time. Just for your edification, I am 39, 185 Lbs, short brown hair and eyes, average build (big chest), hairy, White – Mix of German and Italian (maybe the latter is the problem as I see most Asians do not like Latinos, and I look like one sometimes)? Other than that, nothing to be so AFRAID of ;-(

    Just about every time I see a young Asian man at the club (baths), I get the “see-saw effect” … When I sit down next to him, I activate some sort of switch, and he gets up and walks away (then sit down next to him again later, and same thing – he gets up as if my presence “shocked” his tight ass or something).

    Second, when I see a similar GAM approaching me, there it is, that all-to-familiar RIGHT TURN away from me. Third, older Asians, even some down right ugly ones, with glasses and all that, also REJECT me (usually the “excuse” is that they are “shy”) … Anyway, I get turned down.

    Also, when an Asian man is “going at it” with a man two (or even three +) times his age, you would think me being there showing interest would make the GAM there happy … NOPE … I either get a dirty look and / or attitude. I actually heard one GAM (with a man in his 70’s with WHITE hair) mumble in my presence: “Let’s get away from this UGLY white idiot staring at me”! Who the fuck was “ugly” there? But it’s all RELATIVE, right?

    The remaining 1% success comes from overweight and / or VERY old GAM, sometimes being in another city helps a bit, but mainly if that city has a LOT of Asians (statistics 101 – get rejected 90% of the time, and 1 GAM in the club usually means I meet no one / but if there are 50 GAM in the club, that 5 of them gives me some sort of “chance”).

    So the last thing I want to hear on this page is the “20 year old with the 45 y/o” paradigm. I am 39, so WHY can’t I be accepted by an 18 y/o GAM? This is TOO complicated. Any YOU (the author) … LOL, I hope I never run into you in any bathhouse … I am sure you would run away SCREAMING if you saw me!

    After about 4 to 5 years of rejections and frustration, I gave up … Did you ever hear the expression: “You despise what you cannot have”? We’ll that “what I cannot have” is the young Asian (Thai boy or twink), you know, usually with the cute face and longish “mullet” black hair … I despise that now.

    I liked you guys at one point, but NOW have learned to stay away from the pain and cock-teases, sometimes leaving the club altogether if I see a lot of GAM and lots of older white “trolls” there (it GROSSES me out seeing geriatric sex like that).

    Thanks to you (GAM) and your HORRIBLE tastes and preferences, you now have one less (and cute) middle-aged man that likes you. I am now trying to settle down with a guy from Kansas, blonde and white, and about my age … The drama is gone with that too.

    Good luck with fulfilling and REINFORCING this awful stereotype that makes so many people HATE GAM and anything to do with them.

    Ahhhh, feels good to get it all out, eh?

  30. Chris
    February 28, 2010 at 5:19 PM

    I have read many and MANY entries (both on this site) and others of the large age spread between gay Asians and White guys – Many with the GAM being in his 20’s and the GWM 40+.

    I have noticed a few things with this, either proving it wrong, or maybe it’s just me (?) … First of all, outside of Miami (FL) and in many other cities (with a lot of Asians) I have noticed that any one GAM, even slightly less than my age, avoided me.

    Any Asian in his 20’s, forget it – Off limits for me. Sp how on earth does a 45 y/o man go with a 20 something Asian guy? I certainly cannot see that, so I cannot quite get it.

    I look a lot younger than I am, so maybe that answers my question, but maybe not. I dated many Asian guys, and am currently settling down with an Asian guy now, but he’s 3-4 years older than me.

    Most Asians I have been with were NOT younger than me, except for one in his low 30’s last year in Chicago.

    So try not to assume that GAM goes with GWM twice their age 99% of the time, to me it’s more like 40% of the time.

    I also noticed this patter with 99% of gay people – Asian or not – Going with young and older men. Hispanics are also noted to date much older me too. I have seen it.

    Maybe in my neck of the woods, MONEY drives this old white young “magic”? So be very careful with the stereotyping.

    Otherwise, I cannot understand seeing some 25 y/o Asian twink with some 60 y/o Jewish guy … and to me, it’s simply NOT right ;-(

  31. Jack
    January 24, 2010 at 5:21 PM

    You have the GWM/GAM attraction completely wrong. I think you are trying to use some justification that makes you feel better rather than just accepting the way things are. I could list a number of your facts and prove them wrong but that is too long so I will give you one. The media uses whatever sells. If minorities sold their products and made huge profits for the company that is what they would use. There is no hidden agenda in marketing where they are really trying to convince the viewer that white is the most attractive. They only want to sell their product. They are interested in the profit.

  32. GBMSA
    September 27, 2009 at 5:25 PM

    Hey there, I have to be honest that your blog resonates a lot of truth, but there is no mistaking that you have been too badly hurt.

    Yes, I know that many people have pointed this out to you before, and I can bet that they are either GWMs who cannot fathom your perspective OR they are GAM who feel unfairly diminished by your thoughts; the point I am making is that you can not define your course by the reactions of other people, regardless of their identities. You cannot reserve the right to give white guys bad PR because of sour experience. Simultaneously, you cannot adjudge GAM in the same way. It’s just not healthy for your soul.

    I’m a black guy and trying to say this objectively, I think your sensitivity is based on too many external factors. If you still bear resentment of ‘the desire to be desired’, move to South Africa. We’re a much nicer bunch of people. Don’t get me wrong, the prejudices exist here (after all, we were taught to hate), but we have a much easier time letting go of such anti-social nonsense, especially with a personality & brain like yours!

  33. Rob38
    August 17, 2009 at 5:13 PM

    Hello, I’ve been reading your diaries for a long time, because I was curious about bathhouses.

    I also feel concerned by the other main subject of your texts, racism within the gay community.

    I’m a gay white male in his mid 20s. I do like Asians a lot, but not exclusively — I could go out with guys from any race. But my Asian boyfriend is attracted almost exclusively to white males.

    I live in Paris, and here Asian gays also feel a little rejected, but a lot less than what you describe. I have many friends who like Asians, without being rice queens. There’s a big Asian community here, but Asians remain somehow exotic, rare among the gay community. There are some cities in Europe where there are very, very few Asians. We went to a bathhouse in Copenhagen, where there aren’t many Asians, and my boyfriend got looked at a lot.

    I think that in Europe, even if there’s still some racism, or at least people who stick to their own race, gays do like people of different colors. Black and Arab guys have lots, lots of fans, Asians maybe not as many, but still. And many people don’t really bother which color you are. And to me, mixed races are the tops…

    Interesting thing: here, straight Asian guys predominantly date Asian girls, whereas few gay Asian guys date there “own kind”. Maybe race is a smaller issue in the gay world.

    I believe guys who disregard Asians are sometimes narrow-minded. Sometimes it’s just a matter of taste, but sometimes they should just try it. I wasn’t especially into Asians before I met my boyfriend, but now almost any decent looking Asian guy around my age catches my attention. And I know the same happened to other people. Asians often have characteristics so many gay men look for — smooth and almost hairless skin, slim and well-proportioned bodies, always looking younger, etc. why aren’t all gays running after them???

    If you ever come to Europe, try a bathhouse here, and tell us if it feels different.

  34. K
    August 4, 2009 at 5:14 PM

    Hi, I come from the UK; there are lots of people of all different races and ethnicities in London. That said I’m just not attracted to non-Caucasian features. I’m white and reserve the right to only date other white men. That doesn’t mean I don’t want to be friends with Asians, just so long as we’re both clear nothing could ever happen, unless some how the Asian was blessed with Caucasian features and a big dick etc. It makes me very happy when I see Africans dating other African men and Asian men dating other Asians because I know the relationships are equal.

  35. Anonymous
    July 8, 2009 at 5:15 PM

    I’m a Southeast Asian boy who was raised in predominately “all white” towns. I was inadvertently raised to be only attracted to white guys. I mean that’s all I ever saw. Even in porn most of the guys shown were white. For a time I was convinced “white=beautiful and others should be ignored.” I wasn’t trying to be a self-hater, but I was not exposed to anything otherwise. Even when I saw an Asian or Hispanic or black guy I thought was attractive, I would look the other way. I was young, what the hell did I know. I wanted my first experience to be with a white guy. (I wanted something familiar and what I was used to). I remember a time when in my profile I included “whites only”. Does that make me racist? Yes. Only because I excluded people I didn’t even take the chance to get to know. I excluded people I didn’t even bother to look in the face. If I saw dark hair, dark skin in the corner of my eye I ran the other way. (Without even looking at their face, mind you). To me, ALL NONWHITES were ugly. However, when I finally moved into a bigger city (Dallas, TX), I saw a whole lot of nonwhites. I mean, the ethnic population was pretty much 50% white, 50% non-white. (I’m exaggerating my numbers, but that’s what it appeared to me at first) I saw Mexican guys who were hotter than Enrique Iglesias and Ricky martin. I saw hot Indian guys, hot Egyptian guys, and even hot Chinese and Korean guys. I mean, I don’t know how it happened, but one day I just actually took the time to look at someone who was non-white and realized that “damn, he’s smoking hot and he’s not even white”. I started to realize that they don’t all look the same. That some are but ugly and others are drop dead gorgeous. For me to put “whites only” on my profile really limited my access to hot guys who could have been excellent candidates for sex/relationships/etc. So far, I’ve only had sex with one hot Mexican and 1 hot Indian guy, but I am very open to trying more. (Ok, my ramblings are leading to something…I promise.). So, the moral of my rambling is this: Every time you EXCLUDE a particular race from any opportunities or exposure to yourself, you are practicing a racist behavior. (Don’t worry; it’s not your fault. Its behavior and a way of thinking that you learned growing up.) That is a behavior that most people will grow out of when they get older, become wiser, have traveled more, have seen that Earth is not predominately white, and realize that being white or looking white does not automatically make you “hot”. People go thru different stages of awareness in life. You can’t change someone. They have to want to change or change on their own time. If you haven’t noticed already, the reason why you see older rather than young white guys dating Asians is because the old white guys have had time to progress out of their old way of thinking. (They are wiser, have traveled more, have seen the world for what it really is, a really diverse Earth and FYI the majority of the world’s population are Chinese and Indian.) “I ONLY DATE WHITES” is not a personal/or sexual preference. It is EXCLUSION BASED ON RACE. “I MOSTLY DATE WHITE GUYS, BUT AM OPEN TO DATING OTHER RACES” is more reflective of personal/sexual preference because it DOES NOT EXCLUDE PEOPLE you have not even seen yet. “I PREFER TALL GUYS, SWIMMER BUILD, LIGHT HAIR” is more reflective of personal/sexual preference because race is not mentioned. Anyone from any ethnic background can fit those categories: for example…Hispanics and Asians can be born with light colored hair (I’ve seen blond Latin guys, and Asians with naturally brown hair, even though it is not predominate. I have seen Asian and Latin guys who are over 6 ft tall. etc etc etc)

  36. Mark Daugherty
    April 24, 2009 at 5:19 PM

    For six years I worked in a bathhouse twice a week as an HIV prevention counselor. Although tempted on occasion I never did go as a customer. My life has been spent with two lovers. The first lasted 16 years and we got together at 20 years of age. We even raised his younger brothers. My current lover and I have been together for ten years. Both are Asian men. So maybe I am the exception to your article. I genuinely find Asian men attractive, and white men as boring as dish water. Also, I don’t know about this submissive Asian stuff. Both my lovers have been and are willful as sin. That has always been my experience of Asians. They are the most willful and stubborn of God’s creations, and I wouldn’t have them any other way. I don’t want someone I can run over. Do you? Not all white men are rice queens. Some of us really like you guys. : ) If that were not the case there wouldn’t be row after row of Asian porn films in the DVD stores. It’s not like there is any shortage of porn with white guys, right? Guys buy and rent those tapes because they genuinely like Asians.

  37. Gary
    April 13, 2009 at 5:22 PM

    I’ve been intrigued by your blog. I’m a white guy who lost his virginity to a Vietnamese. My best experience was to have been topped by a Malay. Maybe it’s odd to be the bottom for Asians and not the other way. Clearly they weren’t effeminate but set the mark for me. Also, were more moderate in size so I could really enjoy the experiences. I’d love to meet other truly top Asians but find it hard.

  38. NavyMike
    February 4, 2009 at 9:37 AM

    As a mixed-race guy (Chinese, Hawaiian, Portuguese, English), my personal experiences about race vs. preference are pretty clear. Utah is very much a homogenous State; where nearly 90% of its population is Caucasian. It is true that many GWM will associate with other GWM; but I factor in the demographics as its reason. Even my inner circle of friends is predominantly Caucasian. I can’t speak for anyone other than myself, but I’ve had more than my share of encounters and relationships with GWM. And yes, there are those that would prefer other men of color before considering the Asian option. Gay males being the overt and closeted size queens that we all are tend to buy into the stereotype of Asians being shortchanged in the meat department. True, certain Asian groups represent that stereotype accurately, but hey, haven’t we all seen white guys and black guys that are hung like mosquitoes. My assessment is that Asian features are delicate, and many equate that with having feminine qualities…a bit of a turn-off for gay men. I believe we all have mental checklists of what we find desirable in a partner or mate. So I would have to side with those who agree that we all have preferences in what we find attractive. Seems pretty clear to me.

  39. Patrick
    January 31, 2009 at 9:37 AM

    What an eye opener! Or rather what a mind blower. It was GREAT to read about your experiences and get in touch with the truth of the situation. As a GAM I have been so blind to it all, and suffering without knowing why. How do you change a lifetime of media-induced attraction to GWM? I even recently fell in love with a straight guy friend (blond hair blue eyed). He is being so nice and kind about it and still wants to be my friend. Good thing he isn’t gay or I would have been rejected a long time ago! But then if he was gay I don’t think I would have been able to hang out with him long enough to fall in love lol because I would have been invisible. Thank you SO much for writing about this. I have some serious rethinking to do.

  40. January 6, 2009 at 8:56 AM

    I just started reading your work, and I like it a lot. Very thought provoking.

    I’m a GWM, but not a typical gym bunny or musclebear or what-have-you. Sort of a queeny, fierce, crazy, chubby, hairy mess. 43 now.

    But I’ve been sexually attracted to a wide range of men as long as I can remember. I first started sleeping with Asian men, nearly exclusively, when I was 22 and lived in Japan. That changed a little when I moved to Seattle when I was 32, and there were fewer Asian men around, but then it changed back (for the better) when I moved to Vancouver when I was 40.

    And I’m the passive one. I might look like someone’s daddy (and my partner laughs whenever someone mistakenly refers to me as his daddy–he’s four years my junior, we met in Japan 16 years ago, and yes, we have a mutually open relationship although we are still happily having sex with each other. TMI?), but when someone, Asian, Hispanic, White, whatever, takes control of me… I’m melting…

    So I don’t fit in to many stereotypes, but I do enjoy the conversations you’ve started on race and sex, and I agree, love should indeed be blind.

  41. Nothing Surprises Me Anymore
    June 12, 2008 at 2:28 PM

    You make some very legitimate points, however, keep in mind that there is a difference between overt racism and social conditioning. When someone says they’re not sexually attracted to a person of a particular ethnicity, that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re bigoted. There are people who are truly racist and obviously not attracted to, whomever, and then you can have someone who was raised in a very racist environment, who loves only ethnic minorities, this being a reverse psychology thing, rebelling against the values of ones upbringing.

    I know of one cute WASP guy who goes nuts over and will bed only big black dominant muscle dudes.

    By his own admission, his (wealthy) family would disinherit him if they knew about his proclivities. I’m not even certain if he’s “out” to them as a Gay man, but that’s a whole other issue in itself, isn’t it.

    And then there’s everything else in-between.

    Actually, all these are related issues; because we’re talking about life in an extremely dysfunctional community, and no it’s not easy being a minority within a minority, however, keep in mind that self esteem issues across the board are a big hurdle even for many of the people you complain about.

    Gay people are great at putting on a brave face, to each other and especially under scrutiny of the public eye, but the fact remains that internalized homophobia and other issues remain after all these years of “Pride”.

    And Lord only knows, AIDS has only exacerbated the many issues afflicting the Gay “community” (such as it is).

    I don’t want to get into a whole thing about rampant hedonism and self destructive behavior in the face of potentially fatal and burdensome consequences, but the bottom line is that most Gay men have self esteem issues and spend much of a lifetime working on how to accept themselves and be accepted by everybody else. Learning how to accept others is a part of the curricula that tends to takes a back seat.

    As part of the exercise, try and accept the possibility that when some people say, “it’s a preference, not a prejudice”, they’re telling the truth.

    Gay people live with harsh criticism and doubt and we tend to manifest these characteristics and project them on others (as well as ourselves). For many, life in the Queer community is a real love-hate relationship.

    I remember a Gay pride march years ago, listening to someone say: “Gay Pride is the only day when everybody is nice to each other, tomorrow morning we all back to treating each other like crap for the next 364 days of the year”

    Oh well, whaddya gonna do, we’re not going to solve the world problems in our lifetime.

    So my suggestion is to take your pleasures in life as you find them.

    Stop seeking a pure ideal that is seldom achieved. It’s not impossible to find people who are truly objective and without bias, but don’t hold everybody up to that lofty standard because most people are not in a position to throw stones, and that includes you.

    Gay men are not operating under ideal circumstances. That’s an understatement. We are laboring under a code of sexual politics without precedent in the history of humankind. We’re living in a world that talks about condoms, dental dams and even celibacy.

    Dental dams, how royally fucked up is that!?

    OK, blow off steam, work it out, change your look, re-invent yourself, talk, blog, blab and whatever, but don’t let this grow into an overwhelming obsession or crusade.

    After a time, you need to come to terms with it and move on with your life and say screw everybody and everything, I’m claiming my space, I’ll pick and choose as I like.

    The energy you put into life, your attitude, perspective, persona etc. defines how and what you’ll get out of life.

    Life is all about compromise and concessions, everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY is bound by this rule, no exceptions

  42. Polarbear
    April 19, 2008 at 10:32 AM

    Interesting blog. A viewpoint I don’t usually see.

    The racism that GAM’s encounter is apparently bigger than I knew. I didn’t think is as zero, but I almost feel a need to apologize.

    As a white, somewhat older (50’ish) guy who is attracted to any man who isn’t a non-hairy white guy, I really don’t understand why gay guys are prejudiced against Asian or black guys. I can see it happens, but it sure doesn’t make much sense.

    Hope things go well for you. As someone who has had some serious crushes on Asian men (and black men, Hispanic men and furry men of any description), I wish you well.

  43. Married White Man
    April 17, 2008 at 10:34 AM

    I am a married, white, male, 38 years old, professional in the government service, and with advance graduate degrees until the doctorate level. In short, I am the traditional while male figure that is stereotyped by our “vainly wicked” society. I worked with the Army and the Air Force for nearly 10 years, and have found out the more sleazy side life of the people there. It is very, very true, that the general American society is a truly dishonest and pretentious society, which speaks the other thing but does the other thing. I detest this in all my wits and whatnots.

    I was born in a traditional American family in a suburban Eastern United States, and grew up in a strongly knit family-oriented home. Yet as I grew up, got married and have families of my own, I seem to conclude that other societies can be better than us, in many sense than one. Take the case for example of male sexuality. We adore the traditional white male figure in all his glory, laud and honor. Yet, I am a full witness to this that more than half of the American white male is a true, genuine gay by heart, head and hand. Add to this, the one-fourth who are closeted gays and bisexuals, and the remaining 1/4 as undecided of their sexuality but seem to lean as effeminate or semi-gays. I have been a steady patron and customer of the many, many bathhouses since I was age 19.

    And every weeks and months in those nearly 20 years, I have been to the bathhouses at least once or twice a week. With these trips, I have seen countless cocks and dicks, of all sizes, shapes and colors. I have made love to thousands of men, young and old, rich and poor, blacks, whites, browns, reds, and yellows. I have made sex to many countless groups of people from 6 continents the world over. I have undergone thousands of possible positions; and if ever I have to estimate the amount of semen and sperm that have passed my hands, and chest and face, it will surely fill an Olympic-size swimming pool. Mind you, fellows, I am telling you my own personal experience from out of my own normal, sane, sober life.

    Now, I have to enlighten you with my conclusions that:

    1. White males are pretentiously strong and straight guys, yet in the inside of their hearts and minds they are in most cases, GAYS.

    2. White males, if only given the chance to be able to express themselves without all the inhibitions, event if they are married for many years, or work in the military, of whatever “manly” professions, can be very very gay as they can.

    3. It is a great myth that white males; possess superior dicks and nuts in size and capacity.

    4. Many many many many white guys have small, tiny dicks, and even tinier balls beyond that of peanuts or corn.

    5. It is a myth that White males are really virile and masculine, as many are gays in both physique and emotional stability.

    6. Non-white guys, such as the Asians, Hispanics, and Native Indians have very superior cocks, dicks, thongs, or whatever, far far longer and bigger then many white guys possess.

    7. What you white guys thought of that you are superior is because you do not know at all what is there on the other side of the fence.

    8. Black guys also possess much superiority then white guys when it come to all forms of human sexuality, most especially male sexuality.

    9. Black guys have far larger and bigger, and better dicks, cocks, and balls than all of you white guys combined.

    10. Therefore, thus, henceforth, so, white guys, you must need to educate yourself, and stop thinking of yourself as too highly as you are the kings and queens of this world.

    You are nothing and you pale in comparison compared with all the other nationalities all over the world. Do you understand, huh, white damn stupid white guys???

  44. December 16, 2007 at 2:08 PM

    Regarding the issue you have with GWM not taking on a GAM.

    I among the other side of the coin, as a GWM now 42- I have spent a long time trying to date and enjoy GAM. I also enjoy Latino guys and Black guys too, but for the most part I prefer people who have a bit more skill above the shoulders than below the waist. But, – when it all comes down, I feel that Asian guys have some of the most beautiful & sexy bodies around, and – in fact quite very sexy. From Philipino, Chinese, Thai, Cambodian, Vietnamese, Malay, Pacific Islander, Polynesian, Korean and Japanese.

    Asian guys vary and are so different from race to race and I find many of them to be amazingly beautiful and unique. In fact, if I had more time -I would love to be able to go to a sauna (or at least find one!!) and be able to hook up with an Asian guy(s)– people assume because of what I drive or that I am a blond, blue eyed white guy – that I don’t prefer other Asian guys – which is not true. But when I go out with my Asian friends- I notice that people stare or sort of just watch me.

    When I am in a small group of guys and I am the only white guy – at a club having fun and laughing and really having fun–Asian guys (on the outside looking in) act like the Asian guy who is with me is because I offer him money, or that we are just weird. But I look at it this way, I love Asian guys and have always preferred the body shape, color and everything (btw the small Asian guy “thingy” thing is a total myth- OMG its a huge myth –LOL!!) over white guys– I am in south OC, California and the beaches are full of tanned muscled rippled white guys – and sure they are eye candy but they are not much beyond that– I would prefer to spend some time with a guy – who is Asian.

    I do admit a few of them are a bit – glittery, but I also like to have friends of all different shapes and sizes and personalities. Its what makes a get together fun and interesting. Give me a sauna of naked Asian guys and I would probably have a heart attack and die (LOL). I don’t look that bad either, I have started to get in better shape, and people are carding me, doing double takes when they see I am almost 40–I have been ooh so lucky so far, knock on wood. Now, were do I find Asian guys who wants to be liked by me? Oh and no I am not looking to be someone’s sponsor – FYI.

  45. Perryn Morris
    November 30, 2007 at 10:42 AM

    I love your blog, as a gay black man I can totally relate to what you’re saying about white gay guys being the “standard”. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been pursued because I’m black and therefore expected to be a top. It makes life very aggravating

  46. Tor
    July 26, 2007 at 9:58 AM

    I don’t care what your race is. Hot is hot! I was not considered hot when I was in my 20/s and 30’s, but when I hit 50, yes. Can’t figure that out. Before, I was constantly rejected by all kinds of men at the bar –except Asians, who were not there. I seem to be attracted to some men of every race, but not because they are of a particular race. Its that something special, knowing who they are, taking care of themselves but not all day at the gym [Gotta have a life], and sure I like certain physical traits but will drop that in a second for a sexy man without it.

  47. Jason
    June 15, 2007 at 10:06 AM

    Hi there….your stories/chronicles are enlightening! I am a 48 yo GWM that adores Asian men but, contrary to your opinion as to why that is the case, I realized my affection for slender, smooth, smaller-framed Asian men when I was 15. GWM have no appeal to me. I am going to a bathhouse called the Club Body Center in Providence tonight. It is the first time that I will venture to a bath venue and found your site – what a coincidence, reflections from a man that represents my “preference” writing about bath houses. Very nicely done I must say. But tonight I am going to look for sex with an Asian man – not a Caucasian. Not to fulfill any sense of domination or insecurity but simply to find what I really like sexually. Write back and say hello!

  48. June 2, 2007 at 12:33 AM

    I read your story with much dismay. I am a GAM born and bred in NYC. I have noticed the discrimination you speak of but only one facet of it. I am almost only attracted to other Asian guys. Always have been and probably always will be. Whether it be LTR, casual relations, or ONS, its been 98% other GAMs. I honestly don’t think it’s a fetish or anything, just that I feel more comfortable and familiar with guys of my own race (its also an attraction thing.) Back to the discrimination, because of my preference, I actually don’t pay much mind whether or not GWM, GBM, or anyone else is really paying attention to me because I’m probably not paying attention to them. I have witnessed though, the discrimination of Asians for other Asians. It really breaks my heart. You are right about the whole self worth thing. It tears me up that some of us don’t see how beautiful and valuable we are to each other. So I really relate to this point you made in your blog entry. Being that I am one of the “rarest” forms of GAM, it really limits my pool tremendously. Just thought I would share my thoughts.

  49. Jim
    May 18, 2007 at 8:14 PM

    Your blog is awesome. I’ve never seen so many issues raised in a single place.

    The racism you encounter is disgusting, but I understand it in a bathhouse. If a guy is turned off by another guy, nothing is going to happen.

    I started going to the baths when I was 27, and I go frequently. There are days when I can do nothing more than think of cock, and I almost end up at the baths then.

    There isn’t a racist bone in my body. I’ve made it with guys of every race imaginable. I’ll admit to being a size queen, and if they’re hung, I’ll be hitting on them. BTW, I’m really into uncut cock, and it seems that there are more uncut Asians than cut, so I find myself cruising Asians a lot.

    I wish you nothing but the best in your endeavors!

  50. Khakime
    April 29, 2007 at 8:17 PM

    Hi, I really loved your essays. These are all enlightening. I understand your view on the preferences issue. It must have been form from your perspective in your surrounding area. It may however, be a different view in other areas much less other countries, as noted in the various responses you received. But generally, you did strike a point there in the fact that most Asians prefer the white male. This is of course due to the subliminal effect of advertising. Most of the ads present the all glorified white male/female figure. And these images are stored in one’s subconscious, ultimately forming a certain image of what one wants, ergo the white male/female persona. In some areas of the world where the white image is not so prevalent, the other colors may have emerged as dominant.

    I should say this is a matter of perception of the collective. That goes to show that these preferences phenomenon you are blogging about may be changed in the future when the economic tastes of the business world change gears and go for the Asian/exotic side of things. In some areas this has been happening now.

  51. Cliff
    February 16, 2007 at 10:42 AM

    Thanks for posting your bathhouse blog. I find the stories…interesting! As a gay Asian male also, I can certainly relate to some of your experiences, especially with respect to our (GAM’s) place among gay men.

    One thing to keep in mind is that a gay man (or woman) is like any other person in society – the only common element is that we are all attracted to people of the same sex. Therefore, we may be considered a “community” only because society thrust that term upon us. Other than that, as an individual, I am sure I have a lot more in common with some of my straight friends than some of the gay men and women out there (yes, you, Mary Cheney). To conservatives, we’re all faggots and should be doomed in hell.

    I think there is a tendency to assume that because gay men and women are discriminated against, they should know better than to discriminate and form stereotypes of others. This just isn’t the case – sucking dick doesn’t make one more enlightened…it just means that they like sucking dick.

    I used to feel really strongly about the interactions (or lack thereof) between GAMs and non-Asians (especially Caucasians), but as time goes by, you worry less about these things. You pick your friends, find someone you’ll be happy with and go on with your life. You can volunteer or work on projects that help dispel racism, which may be more effective in the long run. Being out and proud will do a lot more to change people’s attitudes. In the fifteen or so years that I have been out, I see a big change in how people interact with me. Maybe it’s just me, but I think it is bigger than that. Happy scoring!

  52. Rick
    February 3, 2007 at 10:45 AM

    What an interesting find. I’m half Asian from Chicago and feel I understand most of what you discuss in your diaries. Of all your discussion points, I believe the one most relevant to me has been the feeling of being “less than perfect” as a gay Asian male. Being that I am half Asian, I am a mixture of physical characteristics (such as a hairy chest from the non-Asian side of the family), but it has been the Asian facial features that seemed to dominate my feelings of self-worth and place in the community. I have been very fortunate and with a great partner (younger than me, by the way) for 13 years.

  53. Amateur
    January 28, 2007 at 10:46 AM

    Appreciate your conversation-starter on racism in gay bathhouses, and I agree that racism has shaped many a gay man’s desires, particularly here in North America. However, there are spots in the world where gay Asian men are able to act as sexual subjects — seeing other Asian men as attractive. I live in California, and I’ve been able to observe behavior and desire that affirms me as a gay Asian man. At the same time, I’m not naive enough to believe that simple geography (and a growing critical mass of Asian people) has completely impacted the very deep learning that goes into our racist desires.

  54. January 24, 2007 at 10:49 AM

    Hey there, stumbled upon your site by chance. I am a gay Asian based in Asia and I go to the bath often.

  55. Kayce
    January 14, 2007 at 10:50 AM

    I’ve read a handful of entries you place on here and It’s quite a interesting read.

    I can see a lot of discrimination in the community labeled in ‘preferences’. Althogh not just for Asians.

    It may be different for Caucasians, but for me being a black male from Buffalo, I find myself pulling away from my own type moreso then anything. I’m into Asians, into Caucasians, native American, etc. You name it, I’d probably keep an open mind to it.

    However it takes a bit more for someone within my own race to really catch my eye.

    Thanks for posting your entries :)

  56. Rob from New York
    December 31, 2006 at 10:56 AM

    I’m a professional musician (classical): I grew up with lots of Asians (Korean, Chinese, Japanese background, mostly), went to school with them, work with them now. Not a lot of this strikes me as genuine…….

  57. December 31, 2006 at 3:46 AM

    I find all this to be very interesting. It’s bad enough that people discriminate us b/c of our sexual orientation; it’s doubly offensive when we discriminate within our own group (as gay men).

    We need to do a much better job of dealing w/diversity. I know we might various types/preferences, but we should expand our views of people and who they are. You’ll truly miss out on getting to know some interesting people.

    The best way to learn about people is probably dating/getting w/someone outside of your race. That is how we can help put an end to racism. Plus,we need to be more open to men of different races, ethnicity, and cultures (as well as shapes and sizes).

  58. rhustang
    December 30, 2006 at 12:08 PM

    Man, do I feel left out. Nobody ever told me I wasn’t supposed to like Asian men! In fact, I am very attracted to Asian men, and no, I’m not 60 years old looking to pick up an 18 year old Asian kid. I’m 27 and would go for someone close to my age. Honestly, I’ve always felt that Asian men thought they were a bit better than white people…not in sexual terms, but in general (I had a lot of Asian friends growing up…Taiwanese, Korean, Indian). So, imagine my surprise reading this article.

  59. Tristan
    December 29, 2006 at 6:10 PM

    Bro. I hear what you are saying and have read most of your articles. I’m a GAM with white parent (adopted). I grew up thinking that white is better for some reason. A lot of what you said is true. I like to date only White and Latino men, although some Asian men catch my eye. Is it a low self-esteem problem? I’m not really sure what the answer is, but it may just be it.

    Now, I consider myself a good-looking guy, toned body, even light tan (I love my skin), and a really cute face (not trying to be conceited). Now, I’m 31, but I look 24-25. I take very good care of myself. Oh, one last thing…I’m a doctor. So why is it so hard to find a good looking, young white guy? Is it racism among the gays? I don’t know. I usually get attention from women and old men of all races. I get harassed by black and Indian guys a lot and old white men. Also, when I was in Europe for the summer. I had no problems with young white guys. I really felt wanted over there. Not so here in the states.

    So, how do I fix my own hang-ups and how other people view Asians?

  60. Aaron
    October 9, 2006 at 3:30 PM

    Well where does an Irish Lad start with all this?? First I should point out that Asian guys are a fairly new phenomenon in Ireland, since about 2002. Most are from south and East Asia in their early 20’s and are here to study. So we don’t have the same view of Asians as most of your contributors and commentators in this blog. Asian guys here have started with an equal footing in society here. I suppose this gives Asian guys in Ireland a much different perception than what seems to be the common view. About 5 years ago, you just wouldn’t see an Asian guy in a gay pub or club, never mind a Sauna, but now they are part of the weekend scene. They are in demand, that is clear, and not by balding overweight and behind-the-door-when-god-was-giving-out-looks type guys in their late 50’s!! It’s not unusual to see a typical young Irish Dublin guy with an Asian bf or mixing with a group of Asian guys in the pub. I am guessing that in North America it all started with first generation Asians arriving with a refugee status and little education and with no opportunity to integrate into North America’s society. And so that perception carries to this day. I believe this is one of the reasons white North Americans have never treated Asians with respect and a sense of equality and still do not to this day, regardless of being gay or not. Has anyone taken any time to think when they last saw a white girl with an Asian guy? Never do I hear you all say?? Well it’s not just a gay Asian situation. Not so in Ireland as above!! For myself yeah I like Asian guys, and I also like white. But there is an air of something special about an Asian guy that you just don’t get with white guys, don’t ask me exactly what it is, I never sat down and wasted time to work out the equation!! We don’t worry about what it is, but that it’s there and that’s all that matters. I can only offer two thoughts…

    Asian guys you move here and you will have a lot of young white sexy accented Irish guys chasing you down the halls of the mood lit sauna, pub and club!!!

    And

    Don’t bash the white guys so hard; after all, it’s the white guys you love!!

    -Aaron, Dublin, Rep of Eire

  61. October 5, 2006 at 1:20 PM

    With the larger Asian population on the West coast, finding rice queens and guys that are non-discriminatory towards Asians is easier. Add to the fact that I am attractive (not model looks but I do have examples to back up my claim), and I do get my fair share of boys. With all that said, I have experienced some of the things that the author has talked about. More so in the West Hollywood culture. Have I felt overlooked? Yes. Could it be because I’m really not as attractive as I think? Possibly. Could it be because the young, innocent look is not their type? Possibly. Could it be that it’s my own preconceived notions or insecurity and that everyone gets overlooked as much as I do? Possibly. Could it be that I’m giving off an unapproachable vibe (since I’m so good looking and all — that’s supposed to be sarcastic)? Possibly. Could it be that I’m to blame since I haven’t interacted with anyone outside of my friends? Possibly.

    So I’ve accepted the fact that to a certain extent it has nothing to do with my race. But I can’t seem to shake the feeling that there is still a level of sexual discrimination out there. The clear example would be on personal ads where a lot of posts would say, “No Asians.” By my observation, I think this comment only slightly edges out “No Blacks.” So I do believe that sexual discrimination does occur. I’m not angry about it anymore, just disheartened by it and of course frustrated at times by it. Though I am quite lucky and I do get a lot of attention, which is probably why I’m not angry. But I do know other Asians that don’t have it as easy as I do. So I can only imagine people out there that would get angry and frustrated and ultimately settle for their white male, however old their white male is.

    All in all, I am a bit disappointed in the author. Almost every other article will point out that he’s not getting laid, only to blame it on the fact that he’s Asian. And he also lambastes Asians out there that seem to date 50+ men. He doesn’t seem to consider that there might be other factors that come into play. As someone that prefers big, buff guys (who generally prefers other big, buff guys), I understand that my short, medium build might not be attractive to them. I also prefer guys older than me (still under 35), not because I am settling, but because I prefer a mature personality. (Though at 28, a lot of guys have hit that maturity level that I like).

    But I must also compliment the author that he does bring up the issue. The guest book definitely shows that the topic has sparked a lot of discussions and thinking about the issue. Dialogue is key.

  62. Thomas
    September 25, 2006 at 8:11 PM

    You should know that I am an older GWM and that, in all my innocence, I am really surprised by the foufoufara; RE: race preferences, and welcomed the expanded view on the subject that you offer in your crisp, personable writing. Obviously, you have given the matter a great deal of thought and have spent a lot of time in public pickup joints.

    That, together with your Chinese heritage, should give you a certain authority on the subject. ;-)

    The 3 or 4 essays that I read left me with a real sadness. If low self-esteem (LSE) is as prevalent as you portray among GAMs then that may be an indictment of a racist society, and perhaps of the family culture of these men. Is LSE as much a problem in 3rd generation Chinese gays as 2nd? Is it really an issue, or is it the perception of one GAM who frequents bathhouses and has had long-term esteem issues?

    I wondered about the personal baggage you bring to this issue. There is a certain obsessive quality to your bathhouse observations, and you do allude to psychiatric medications. Your candor and (perhaps unintentionally humorous) descriptions (that asshole Russian/German) only underscore that what makes a person attractive, huggable, is his personality, and you have the bonus of being Asian. But in your case a low self-esteem Asian who goes to the baths? Perhaps guys of all races who want quick intimacy as an antidote to there low self-esteem. Why aren’t Asians hit on? Perhaps they stand aloof, are too superior to make the first move; perhaps they are just so fucking beautiful that they are intimidating to the Russian oaf. (My self-esteem is way too low to visit a bathhouse, and I don’t care for damp surroundings.)

    Finally, I wonder if you would comment on the term ‘Asian’. Do you mind being lumped together with Japanese and Koreans, not to mention Filipinos? The few ‘Asians’ I have had relationships with did not seem to care to be lumped together. For myself, I don’t care for the overly broad term ‘Caucasian’, though they may be all the same to you. There’s a world of difference between a Celt and a Slav, but I gather from your writings that a white is a white a cock is a cock.

    Oh my, I had a senior moment! There was another point I wanted to make. I have always been attracted to ‘Asians’, from a young age. Their smooth bodies, beautiful skin, pouty lips, dreamy eyes, untouched black hair… I loved just holding him as he slept. It had nothing to do with submission; in fact I wanted to serve him, to have him pound my ass, to leave his seed of a great culture deep in my rectum.

    Anyway, I thank you for directing me to your essays and will look at them all more closely at a later time.

  63. Danny
    August 28, 2006 at 8:36 PM

    It’s been awhile since I’ve visited this site, but I thought I’d actually comment on it. First off, I enjoyed the stories. Like everyone says, they are very insightful. Next, I’ve seen a comment or two about the whole preference issue, and maybe it is your area? I myself am both half Mexican/Euro, but I never see too many issues on the subject. I’ve dated two Asian guys, two Mexicans, and although I never would have thought it, I even met up with an African American, and usually I don’t find them attractive. Everyone has his preference, I suppose where you are, the preference must be consistent.

  64. July 14, 2006 at 1:24 PM

    Just for record, I am a GWM. I, like you frequent the baths in my area. Although you have more experience and documented journals of them!

    I must say that I have to disagree with your essay on racism/preference. Perhaps I am the exception? I TOTALLY adore Asians, Blacks, Indian (Eastern or American), Israelis, …Men of ALL nationalities! I just love men! However, I DO have my preferences! Although I am completely color blind, I tend to lean toward the thin guys, Small framed or short (however you want to put it) and generally like them young and smooth.
    This is ONLY a preference! It isn’t to say that I haven’t been with the occasional chub or bear or any other type for that matter! It is the bath, and I for one want to experience all that out there!

    I just wanted to put in my 2 cents, and thank you for your very complete and for the most part accurate journal of “how it is” at the baths.

  65. June 6, 2006 at 1:02 PM

    This is my first visit to your site and the first article that caught my eye to read was the one called “Racism or Preference (At the Baths?)”. I just finished reading it and haven’t yet read anything else yet on your site but I had to stop and comment. What an amazing article. You reveal much of yourself in that article. You delivered an unexpected point of view to me that kind of caught me by surprise by providing me with this little bit of insight into the lives of gay Asian American men. I had several thoughts and feelings flow through me as I read it, and they were all sort of contradictory thoughts and feelings at the same time. Racism is such a big word to use when characterizing an entire group of people. Yet I couldn’t help but also notice your broken heart over feeling overlooked by some who you could have cared about had they allowed you to. But I had difficulty with your analysis of how they came to overlook you and your theory of why they act this which you stated was based upon your historical knowledge of their general upbringing and supported by your own personal observation and experience over a long period of time. Yet I also couldn’t help notice your apparent live and let live attitude and your willingness to apply the same sword to your own race and the similar foibles you have observed which you have come to give the same name to. Actually, that really didn’t strike me as all that noble since you gave the pointy end of your sword to the other group, keeping the weaker lesser blunt end for application to your own group.

    Yet your words do offer up something greater than your sword. Underneath it all there seems to be hope. Though maybe you find you are not getting all from your life that you desire in this area, you seem to suggest that things will change one day. I don’t quite know why I think this about your essay, but I do. I forget which music group said this but it’s so basic it’s a wonder people don’t always and forever remember that underneath it all, all anybody ever wants is to be loved.

    But forcing somebody to have sex with you who don’t want to, regardless of why they have chosen to dismiss you is certainly a difficult fight for the warriors of justice and equality to demand equal treatment at that level. One is only born into this world with one thing, and that is your body. When one’s power to control one’s own body is taken away from him, he quite literally has nothing. And as a gay man, you well know that the whole point of equal treatment for gay people is to gain control over our bodies by asking for the same rights as everyone else has, which is simply to be the last word on what will, or will not, be permitted to be placed upon, or into, our bodies. We simply wish to be allowed to choose what we will do with our bodies at the same level under that law that everyone else receives. In short, we want the payoff that everyone else gets who follows the law and respects the rights of others and in exchange for that is permitted the privilege of selecting how the matters of his body’s pains and pleasures and preservation needs are resolved. Because these three things, and these three things alone, are the sum total of all that will concern a person in the pursuit of happiness.

    So, I ask you, and I say this as a fellow lover of bath houses, if they bring you nothing but the naked thrill of nakedness yet consistently leave you with a vacant heart, why do you return over and over again to a place you know for certain offers even less than a simple acknowledgement of your existence, and even less sympathy for your warm and human needs. And why do you seek out not just one or two of these places, but in fact, ALL of them in the world? Would not reason suggest you might be looking in the wrong place?

    But, I cannot end there. IS a way for you to have your bath house and eat in it too? Why not build one of your own? Where YOU can set the rules, and were you CAN expressly forbid what can and cannot go on at that most intimate of physical levels between two people? Why not open one where you get right out there and toss out anybody who you see expressly ignoring someone else who they shouldn’t be (as defined by you, of course). If you let you mind wander a bit I bet you could start coming up with all kinds of ways to get the races to get in there and get each other off. Cause, in your place, the issue doesn’t have to be swept under the table. In YOUR place, it’s the big thing. The thing you get labelled for being. The place where you get to say to those who choose to come in (and read all your signs and banners clearly posted by the front desk alongside the no drugs lip service message and the proclamation that this is a gay club, god damn it, and you’d better love gay men and have no problem with them fiddling with each other’s private parts around you and even possibly attempting to fiddle with yours, and alongside the only one of those signs that really means anything thing: no refunds. You can just add your own sign that says that if you even suspect somebody didn’t blow somebody else cause they are of a different race you will be on them so fast and embarrass them so much and possibly even force them to choke on it themselves before you’ll let them go back out on the street and do their mean and creepy and hopelessly inbred ignorant stuff that they do that they do like not getting all naked and hot and sweaty and fluidly and intimately and lovingly and sweetly and honestly and hopefully and, sigh, maybe even somebody to love me…..as long as they’re the right colour.

    Because I just have to, oh I hope the people I reject won’t think I’m bigoted, but, shhhhh, I am really REALLY not attracted to those kind of people over there that look like that. I mean, I can be friends and all, and I even DO have those kinds of people as friends, but, oh, when I’ve got a hard-on and am hoping to fall in love with a good sweet man just like my dear old dad, just like my mother had, well, wouldn’t that be swell?

    And besides, look at him, he’s angry as hell at all of US, why in the world would he think I’d want to FUCK him, much less trust him for love.

    But, shhhh, he might hear. And besides, I heard he’s actually going to open a self-righteous bathhouse of his own where he’ll be on PC sex patrol making sure nobody gets out without touching somebody gross. Bet the fatties and the trolls will LOVE it though…
    (But don’t you know he’s secretly hoping it’ll be there when he’s old…?)

    So, my warrior friend from the eas… uh, I mean, from right around here..yeah, from right around here. I’ve never noticed you before but I’m starting to hear you’ve become quite the militant queen with your high and mighty PC-BH Chain.

    Dare you risk taking a stand where you live?

    Or will you continue to wander the UnPC gay BH world with a heavy heart and the relentless suffering of so many pricks right under your nose…, close enough even to touch….

    But you can’t.

    Waaaa waaaa waaaa.

    But it’s not my fault, it’s THEIRS! ..(those beautiful bastards…)

    So, what is it? Love or hate?

    I’d love to open my own bath house. I’ve wanted to for many years. But I haven’t done it…. and so I don’t have one. And I really wish I did….

    Say… you got any money??? Come on…

    …cause where money’s concerned, I’m not as white as you’d think…

    damn it.

    sigh……………..

    (see how unpretty that blunt end of the same sword looks?… can you even believe I wrote this like this?….why, full of shit I must be…what the hell am I even trying to say. except that you were awfully right about a lot of things in that article and some pertained to me. but I know it won’t change me because it’s not something I want to change. can we still be friends anyway?…besides, as you can see by what I’ve written here, regardless of who I am or what I look like, I’m the man of nobody’s dreams…) just hopeless poor pitiful me.

  66. Reed Jacobson
    July 30, 2005 at 10:12 AM

    I am a GWM who just read your Racism essay. I am not a “rice queen” but I am as just as likely to be attracted to an Asian as to a Hispanic or to a white. I admit to being “older” (50), but I look 40 and was an SMM (Straight Married Male) until 5 years ago. I think I was race indifferent in my 20’s, but at that time I wasn’t out even to myself, so it’s hard to say. I do acknowledge that with the prejudice against “older men”, it is sometimes easier to find someone I like who happens to be Asian. Is it two rejected minorities finding each other?

    On a separate note, I have often found people to “talk with” in saunas, particularly as I travel outside US. I have even made lasting friendships with some.

  67. Sam
    July 25, 2005 at 9:47 PM

    I like this post…I think its unfortunate that minorities do the same thing to themselves…by preferring whites…I think the reason why so many prefer whites is our media and racist cultural roots here in North America…Men in Europe and other parts of the western world, love men of color…

    However I would say to any man who says he is 100% not attracted to a minority.. What if I dropped you in the middle of “jungle Africa” for YEARS. Are you saying you would go without? I doubt it. No man can say what he would or would not do given TIME, DESPERATION, AND OPPORTUNITY…

    In short, men are sexual. we know that even a straight man given time, desperation and opportunity ( jail..military..drunkeness, etc) will AT LEAST let a man go down on him. I think the same applies to racial preference…they will fall given the above.

    I think in other cultures they are filled with gay imagines of white men as well. But they have learned to appreciate diversity and many of those countries don’t have a history of racial bias against Asians, Blacks, and Latinos. North Americans refuse to realize the affects of what our past has on our present day preferences.

    Men who have only one preference have that based on their cultural experience and background. It is primarily a nature thing…and therefore it is mutable or can be changed…People change interests and preferences everyday based on their new experiences from Brussels sprouts to black men…trust me. Free your minds.

  68. June 30, 2005 at 7:47 PM

    Just a brief contribution to the discussion over racist attitudes towards Asian men in the area of sex: In the 1980s I attended a prestigious research university in northern California (it begins with an “S” ends with a “D” and is located in Palo Alto). One evening I went to a forum that was held on the topic of inter-racial dating. One of the things that really stuck in my head from that forum was a comment that was made by a female Asian student and repeated by several other Asian women. The comment was, “Asian women prefer not to date Asian men because Asian men are ‘wimps’.”

    What really stunned me about this comment was two things: First, as I mention above, the forum in question was held at a prestigious university, the male students at which – regardless of race – probably all thought of themselves as “wimps,” or at the very least, “nerds.” Second, the female Asian students who expressed these sentiments did not seem much to care that they hurt the feelings of their male counterparts at best, and at worst articulated virulently racist and demeaning ideas directed at their own race.

    Still, one has to grant to these women that they honestly expressed their preferences. These were highly educated women who apparently did not find much attraction in similarly highly educated Asian men. Rather, because of deeply engrained cultural and societal forces, they were sexually and romantically inclined towards men who they felt possessed more virile or manly qualities.

    In theory, these preferences can be unlearned, but in practice they are difficult to overcome in the course of a single generation.

  69. Anonymous
    June 2, 2005 at 6:31 PM

    I think the whole issue about GAM/GWM dilemma has a lot to do with racism. White guys can be racist, so do oriental guys! I think oriental guys are the one who should ultimately responsible for this GAM/GWM dilemma

    Very surprising, no one on this site has ever though of “reverse racism”

    For example, white guys get preferential treatments in Asian countries. In China/Hong Kong/Japan and other Asian countries, local magazines (gay/straight) tend to put pictures of white guys symbolizing “high class” images. Theatres play Hollywood movies. People learn to speak English.

    English is a mandatory subject in high school! (Imagine if you are oriental who can speak English without any ascent, you can get a WOW effect in south Asian countries. People would generally look up at you!)

    Now, look at the North America. Magazines (especially the gay ones) are still full of pictures of white people. Movie theatres won’t ever play Chinese/Japanese movies. People won’t find it amazing if you can speak multi-language and of course, you don’t have to take any Asian language in high school

    So what the hell is this?
    Asian people think they are inferior?
    Apparently, they are!
    Don’t be too desperate and narrow minded.

    White guys don’t date Asian. OH NO, BIG DEAL!! Date Asian guys!!

    As the matter of fact, if you want to date anyone, first you need to feel completely comfortable of being yourself.

    Look at this website the whole site is covered by images of muscle white boys. So, the website owner wants to be a white guy??

    Don’t you think you are too desperate and eventually becoming upset because you aren’t getting what you want?

    In this world, most of the people DO NOT value things. When you have something, you don’t value it as much.

    But when you can’t get certain things, you want them badly. Imagine, we switch the whole story around. Asian guys ONLY date their own race, I bet you white guys would be the follower!!

    Be Smart, strong and don’t be ignorant.

  70. cellocello
    May 25, 2005 at 4:56 PM

    Actually, same race preference is understandable to me. I am a Chinese gay man, brought up in China as well, when I was living in Beijing from very young till to 28, I tended to ignore all other gay white men when I go too any gay bar or gay sauna too. I didn’t find gay white men were attractive at all. Having been living in the UK, I started to fancy some of the white guys, but very interestingly, I found many of the white guys I fancy always share some physical features of gay oriental guys, more or less…. And every time I come across a cute gay oriental man, I just can’t help checking him out. So, I believe same race preference is a still built in you from very young, you can’t change it easily.

  71. Rob
    May 13, 2005 at 5:58 PM

    Your comments on “racism or preference” are interesting. As a GWM I definitely “prefer” GBM. In fact probably half of my experience is with GBMs or mixed-race guys. Your comments made me recall my old doubts as to whether this is “racism” or not. I haven’t been with a huge number of guys and my other experiences are mostly with GWMs and only one or two Latinos and GAMs, but those have been from India. In fact I have met very few non-Indian GAMs and never slept with one, but I think this is probably just chance.

    Or is it? I have been telling myself, as you pointed out, “it’s just preference, like some men prefer blonds or brunettes, or fem or masculine…” It is interesting to get another perspective, but I think you’ve got to be careful not to imagine, as we all tend to do, that everyone else is getting more sex than we are (which they probably aren’t) and ascribing this to some spurious reason. I HOPE racism is a spurious reason, but I am sure there are racist gays just as there are racist str8s and a racist refusal will REALLY sting. It will therefore be remembered bitterly and may shake confidence, making the victim wonder if EVERY refusal from a GWM is secretly racially motivated.

    Trouble is, from what you say about bath houses, getting to know someone before sex is not high on the list so appearances are going to be important – and one’s race is probably the thing that has most impact on your appearance, so in the bath house it will probably have a greater than normal impact.

  72. Kyle
    May 3, 2005 at 5:04 AM

    I have spent considerable time reading a few of your listings. I have bookmarked your page and wish to read the rest of what you have written, as what you have written is not only, well done, but also an eye opener for me; so I wish to be informed more.

    However…….and criticism,( I am sure is not below you ), I have got the slightest impression that in some things that you have written, have an impression on me as reverse racism against GWM and very much so against older men.
    However, I have yet to read the rest of your writings before I could sustain this immediate impression.

    In to-day’s world, has it it ever occurred to you, that the upbringing of kids desires such a lot of what is called “old fashioned” values towards society, fellow man whether gay or straight. Respect for each other has gone out of the door in the last 2o or even less years. The Asian family still seems to be able to engender in their offspring, values that have been lost in mostly Caucasian parentage.

    I live in a suburb that has found a home for so many Asian families, and sure this place has changed so much over the years. At first for me, there was resentment to see this place being taken over so quickly. In walking distance there are approx. 50 Asian restaurants and the only non Asian food is to be got at McDonalds, Hungry Jacks and KFC. Unfortunately, I only like Japanese food as opposed to Western food.
    I have become very comfortable with this. A lot of money has been injected into this area, house prices have soared etc. Sure there is things that upset me, like increased graffiti and petty crime. BUT……..when the perpetrators are caught, they usually are young Caucasian louts.

    I am also a practicing Christian, and our new Curate is Chinese. He is the most wonderful Priest and is very much loved by our Anglican congregation who are 95% Caucasian.
    Governmental policy can contribute to racism as observed in the UK where I used to live. Here, I don’t think that applies. I look forward to reading the rest of your listings.

  73. Jon
    February 13, 2005 at 2:31 PM

    I was really intrigued by your writings!! I have a very similar experience at the baths here in Duluth…one of the last ones left in the state…I have seen the exact variety of guys you have seen and it’s just amazing that someone else has written about it. Now I’m inspired to do some of my own writing! Even though I don’t really go much anymore, I’m not sure if I just grew out of it or what, it’s an interesting world.

    One thing you need to understand is this: EVERY gay man is fighting his own battles. I’m not Asian, but I am gay, and I can’t find anyone EITHER! We need to stop arguing about who’s pain is worse and look at our commonalities rather than this foolishness. I’m just as angry as you are that I can’t meet anyone…but I don’t believe that race has as much to do with is as age, money, location, and profession. Unfortunately for gay men, the bar has been raised very high compared to the rest of society: we must be sex objects as well as success objects. You must have a degree. You must have money. You must be in good shape. You must have accomplished a lot, and look like you’ve got money. The general population is not held by these expectations. But we are – yet look at how many of us quit high school, battled drugs, loneliness, etc. – after going through all this shit – how can we be expected to come out, and be ahead of everyone else who grew up “normally”?

    We are the ones who perpetuate this bullshit. Is racism a problem? Maybe But I see a lot of white guys interested in Latinos who are turned down because the Latino men only want each other. It’s ridiculous. We only make up, at best, 4-5% of the population. With numbers this low, how can we afford to be this discriminatory? I don’t even know straight people who are this unrealistic.

    No WONDER none of us seem to be able to find relationships. We survive as a group of grown men conducting our lives with high school emotions.

  74. Shawn
    January 19, 2005 at 5:47 AM

    Reading halfway through your stories, not a single time or occasion you ever mentioned having a sexual encounter with any races other than white men in the tubs. I agree with some parts of your stories about some Asian men ignoring any races other than white men. I am afraid the way you describe those potato queens is exactly the way you describe yourself.

    Any form of addiction is bad. I think it is really sad to hear stories about someone as attractive as you being addicted to sleazy place like the tubs and living a life with one constant aim of getting laid by white men under 40.

    The fact is that there are white men who only like white men, especially those white men who have little or totally zero exposure to the world out there; they tend to have negative stereotypes about Asian men. I myself am GAM, attached to a good looking and tall GAM doctor and we have some Caucasian friends and they are really good people.

    Point is stopping the prejudice about racism.

  75. Pablo Montaño
    December 11, 2004 at 1:40 AM

    I agree with your story. I’m a 24 y/o Latino (who happens to also love Latinos, mostly.) If I had a choice it would be with another Latino and I don’t know why.

    Regarding your story, my surprise is that the situation of whites that prefer whites is nothing new. If you think about it, it has been like that almost forever. Both my sister’s married white guys and we (my brothers in law and me) can not stand each other. We are nice and polite but never too close like to go out or have a beer together. I believe that white guys are also victims of the mass media you talk about as much as other minorities… just think about it… Jesus is white with blue eyes… Buddha and Muhammad are not…

  76. November 16, 2004 at 10:30 PM

    You may be right about most GWM/GAM relationships, but as for myself, I have a Korean boyfriend. I love Asian guys. Maybe I’m in the minority, but we do exist.

  77. GP
    November 16, 2004 at 10:25 PM

    I just read “Racism or Preference”. I’d just like to note that I’m a GWM who likes Asian guys, but I definitely wouldn’t call myself a rice queen! Honestly it’s probably just my exposure to Asian guys, as I used to live in Asia. But regardless, I like both white and Asian guys with no preference to either one.

  78. Michael
    September 8, 2004 at 5:06 PM

    You’re right about the GWM/GAM thing. I am White, but, while not necessarily a rice queen, find Asian men really attractive. I have been in a relationship for 15 years now with a Filipino man, and am just now 33.

    So, as we are monogamous, I have taken to being the voyeur, not ever at a bathhouse, but everywhere I go, I spy handsome Asians, and I watch their body language, mannerisms, and speech patterns. It can be a much insulated group in the general culture (by that I mean white). Most non-whites are not represented proportionately in American culture. I for one am so glad to have found your site – it makes me realize something deep within myself. And you deserve the right to speak with conviction and passion about your experiences.

    I now consider myself more educated about the world of casual sex, and human relations. Thanks for all your time and hard work.

  79. Charlie
    September 6, 2004 at 2:49 AM

    Hey, I read you’re blog on racism. You write really well and you make a lot of good points. But there are some things that aren’t so true…I mean not all GWMs are like that. I’m 21 Y/O GAM and I went to my first bath house this summer in Vegas, then one in dc and yea just like anywhere else I cruise, a lot white guys don’t give me a second look…and I do the same. I automatically am not interested in guys who aren’t interested in me either. But I still hooked up or got the interest of half the bathhouse…a lot of people, white, invited me to their rooms. I used to think, especially here in Richmond, that being Asian sucked because like no gay guys are ever interested.

    But recently I changed my attitude because of just visiting other places, and that’s really worked out well because it seems that a lot of guys are interested…I just never thought they were before so I never approached them. So what I’m trying to say I guess is its not always just one sided, the not approaching. Maybe you display a defensive attitude that has people not approaching you either?

  80. Ron
    August 20, 2004 at 10:33 AM

    I came across your diary website today and have been reading your stories with great interest. As a GWM, I have to agree with most of your assessments about “us” as well as your perspectives about GAMs. I want to finish reading the rest of your stories later and, if you are perhaps willing, share some perspectives of my own

  81. Mike
    August 16, 2004 at 12:36 AM

    Just a comment on your Racism/preference story– I may be an exception to your views of GWM and GAM. I have always had a high regard for GAM even though I am a GWM, when I was younger and still now that I am in my late 40’s. Perhaps what you said is ture to some extent, but don’t sell the GAM short. Maybe I’m the exception, in that I look at the person and not the race/color/creed.

  82. CL
    July 8, 2004 at 11:08 AM

    I have read most of the stories on your site and tried to refrain myself from writing to you, but this time I just have to let it out:

    STOP IT ALREADY!!!

    You have so much assumption based on nothing but your pathetic and distorted view of the world.

    e.g.: “I don’t think I have ever seen a GAM at the baths refuse to blow anybody, even if that person is seventy! No wonder why so many gay elderly men take a shine to Asians! ” Personally I would never blow someone who is in their 70’s and I know Gay Asian tops who simply don’t like to suck dick; “I truly believe that a lot of white guys at the baths look at Asians as the ultimate ‘back-up”

    Sweetie, no one can make you a back-up unless you let them.

    I can go on with this forever but I am sure intelligent readers would know what I am talking about. True, it is VERY hard to be Asian and gay. Why do I know? Because I used to be one bitter GAM too. But it is not going to help to dwell on your own sadness and intensify it by negative viewpoint based on NOTHING. I have felt the way you do before, and reading it just makes me realize how UTTERLY UNATTRACTIVE it is.

    No one is going to like you if you look like you have the words “pissed and bitter” carved on your forehead. You don’t need to be validated (as you often put it) by ANYBODY, whether GW/B/L/M, your parents or your best friends in order to have self-esteem. We say self-esteem because it really has to come from oneself. Maybe you need to get out of the bath more, do other stuff. Make peace with who you are, know what you believe in, and love yourself for it. You will be surprised by the kind of wonderful people (who were always repelled by you before) attracted to you as you slowly gain some self-esteem.

    Having all that said I am also very happy to say personally I have taken a departure from what I used to be: I see it in you! “Poor me! Look at me! Sympathize me me!” And be able to laugh at you and say again “STOP IT ALREADY!!!” But then that’s my stories.
    And to my fellow readers, please do not mistake his point of view as the general opinion of ALL GAMs. Some of us are actually doing OK.

  83. Dan
    July 8, 2004 at 11:06 AM

    I do take offence, as a GWM, to having the choice between being a rice queen (a highly offensive term in my mind), or a racist. Frankly, I am attracted to who I am, some are white guys, some are Asian guys, some are Latin guys, and some are Black guys. I’m young, and I will date who I will.

    Other than that rant, I am thoroughly impressed with your Website.

  84. May 5, 2004 at 11:34 AM

    There’s some great insight on this website – my comment is this: I think that sexual racism is becoming less of an issue with younger gay men (do others feel the same way?). I’m a 26 y/o white boy, who’s not hard on the eye! I’ve had one white boyfriend, one black boyfriend, one Latin boyfriend in my ten years of being a gay boy – and recently a two year relationship with a Vietnamese guy who was 10 years my senior. Hope that breaks a stereo-type for you – here’s one white boy who sees people before race!

    Also a white boy who was totally into an older Asian guy (well until it ended that is). Yes, we are few and far between – but my gut feeling is that next generation of gay men on the scene are slowly letting go of their sexual racism. The other comment I’d like to make is that you ought not to group all white men in the same basket ;) – just as Thai is not Chinese and Mexican is not Brazilian. Australians are not Americans are not Europeans…..

  85. Anonymous
    March 12, 2004 at 8:32 AM

    As I’m 27 and no Rice Queen (never been with a GAM before), maybe I’ll be the first one (?).

    I’m a French GWM and I met a Thai GAM in a bathhouse 2 months ago.

    According to your experience :
    I would not even have seen him (when he approaches me I couldn’t see anything but his smile),
    he would be twenty years younger than me (he’s two months older),
    he would be a bottom (he is a top),
    and we would never have seen again (we left the bathhouse together… and we’re still together).

    So please, doctor, tell me: are we really weirdo’s? ;-)

    The funniest thing being probably that I can’t really understand why he find me so exceptionally attractive (I’m good looking, but no GQ model), and vice versa (he can’t realize that he is really really gorgeous).

    So don’t worry too much about those race questions: the only sure thing you know about Mr Right before you meet him for good… is that he probably won’t be Martian.

    Good luck to you

  86. March 5, 2004 at 3:04 PM

    Writing from Montreal Canada. I just came across your website and we think very much alike, like some of your views about Asians.

  87. D
    February 26, 2004 at 12:37 AM

    On the whole racism thing, I have another view, which I don’t see mentioned in your stories.

    I often see young cute Asian men with a really old or really fat guy in the sauna. Simply because I have seen them with the monster-being, I would then not be turned on by that cute Asian any more if I saw him again later alone. When I repeatedly see young Asians with monster-GWMs I tend to get to the point of not wanting any of them although this is usually temporary.

    This is often found to be unkind to the monster-GWMs and described as illogical. In fact I think there is some inherent logic in the feeling since sexual contact involves some degree of sharing (diseases etc) with all previous partners.

    In any case it’s a feeling I have frequently and after several years of living in an Asian country, I now look for a non-Asian as I think there’s more of a chance of the LTR I would like. Whilst content with an open relationship I would not be happy with my partner going off chasing the fat, old and ugly.

    I have sex with all races and always have since I was in my 20s. My preference is for darker types – eyes, hair but skin color is not so important. It’s much easier to find young cute guys who are Asian but the behavior of many in their group puts me off and right now I am making a conscious effort to avoid.

    I guess my point is that you put all this behavior down to unjustified racism. I suggest it isn’t always the case. I’m sure there are many who would insist on a silly PC notion that all forms are unjustified and unacceptable. If a certain group behaves in a certain way I think it’s acceptable to react to that expected-usual behavior perhaps with the proviso that you will allow for the fact there are exceptions in any group.

  88. February 18, 2004 at 5:43 PM

    You write some interesting articles. I am actually facilitating a gay youth group about this very topic. Even though I am a GWM I find the sexual politics of gay men and race very interesting. It will be interesting to see if the Asians in the group agree with your point of view and whether they are only attracted to white men as opposed to other Asians. The evidence that gay Asians tend not to be attracted to their own race puzzles me.

  89. James
    January 31, 2004 at 4:32 AM

    I am a GWM 34 living in Japan. I have been living in Japan for the last 10 years. You make a lot of good points and I really hate sexual racism, like you. However, believe it or not, white guys in JAPAN understand what you Asian guys in the West are going through. Trust me. I have to say that I am a very good looking white guy with a great body. When I am in the West, there are no shortage of really young (early 20’s) white guys that will have sex with me –Oz, NZ, Europe, USA, Canada, Etc. I have just as good luck with Asian guys in the West and in Asia. In SIN, TWN, and THLD, I am mobbed. But in Japan, where they often put signs on the doors of saunas that say in English (Japanese Men Only) it is pretty hard going.

    When I approach Japanese guys that are in my league body wise, many will simply grunt “Gaijin Dame” (basically, “Foreigner –NO GOOD!). I cannot tell you how often that happens. I always have to remind myself not to take it personally — that they are just judging me by my race. But when I think that in six hours in a sauna I can’t get laid once in Japan and in the same time in Montreal or Bangkok I would have been laid several times with some cute hotties of all races — it gets frustrating. Nonetheless, I am a glutton for punishment — been here 10 years. Just want to let your Asian readers know that they should NOT assume because someone is young and good looking and white that they would not be interested. SO OFTEN (since I was 20) I have approached an Asian hottie to be informed that they were interested but afraid to make the first move because they ASSUMED I only liked white guys. Young good looking guys who appreciate young good looking Asian guys DO EXIST. Give us a chance!!

  90. GWK
    January 8, 2004 at 8:07 PM

    Sorry to hear that it can be such a problem to hook up with non-Asian men (especially Caucasians). But as a Caucasian in NC, I can tell you that outside of major cities like SF, LA, and NYC it is equally difficult for Caucasians to meet Asian guys because the Asian population is so small.

    Quite contrary to your experience, however, I have an Asian acquaintance in DC who gets *lots* of interest from Caucasians, and he is not the stereotypical Asian you portray, nor are those Caucasians that are interested in him “fat old guys”. (I’m not one either, BTW).

    Personally, I expect that as Caucasians in America are increasingly exposed to Asians and Asian culture, so will the sexual interest in Asians among Caucasians increase. It may never be as high as you perceive the interest of Asians is in Caucasians, but does it really need to be?

    There are a lot of good-looking Caucasians in the US equally frustrated by lack of Asians in other parts of the US. The current 15-20% interest in Asians by Caucasians in the US may seem very low to you, but I’d love to live in an area where 15-20% of the gay population was gay Asians interested in Caucasians.

    Incidentally, one big difference I’ve noticed between Asians and Caucasians here is that Asians will very rarely “advertise” (i.e. personals, etc) compared with Caucasians. That’s not a criticism. After all, many Caucasians (myself included) prefer not to do so. But Asians who don’t will never meet Caucasians who don’t, either.

    Seems like the best way to know how much real interest is out there is to get out there, yourself (beyond just the bathhouses). This web site is probably helpful in that regard.

  91. David
    January 5, 2004 at 9:53 AM

    I enjoyed reading your entries. I visited the baths a few times in the late 80s and early 90s, each time with varying degrees of success. My first experience was in a European bathhouse while I was in the military. I was shocked and delighted.

    I wanted to tell you that if I had given you my “ideal” man 10 years ago it would have been a description of what we now call an “A&F guy”. However, I’ve spent the last 10 years with an Asian guy I met on a phone chat line. Go figure. He wasn’t that type at all, but we first got to know each other on the phone and only after talking for a couple of months did we actually meet. I didn’t know he was Asian until I walked into the restaurant we had agreed to meet at.

    Since we were already “friends”, we started dating. Our love grew and we moved in with each other about a year after we met. We just celebrated our tenth anniversary.

    Racism, and particularly sexual racism, starts with perceived difference. I don’t know that you can change the world because it really does require an individual to have a different outlook. And something has to exist before a different outlook can be adopted: a new attitude, a new situation, an unfamiliar (and therefore not per-judged) environment.

    All I can tell you is that I love my Asian partner. I love him for all of the reasons you listed in one of your essays — he’s very loyal and giving, he’s got an incredibly hot body, he’s polite, and he loves me. I didn’t “pick” him because I thought he would be submissive — in fact, he still refuses to bottom for me. I didn’t “pick” him because I thought I could take advantage of his desperateness (although I doubt he was desperate, I think you make a good point.)

    Just for the record, we’re the same age and I had never dated or even had sex with an Asian before I met him. And, if I saw your friend with the hot body — the guy whose picture you displayed in a couple of essays — I would immediately think he was hot and I would probably go after him if I ran into him at a bathhouse (assuming I was single, anyway).

    It’s sad that sexual racism exists, but it’s also sad that you haven’t met any guys like me — I think there’s more of us than you realize.

  92. Dee
    December 16, 2003 at 4:46 AM

    I must congratulate you on your wonderful page.This is the very first time I have come across an article of such conviction. This topic is very close to my heart-the topic of GAMs desiring GWMs as a player would desire a trophy. At least you live in a big city. I live in a small city(student)and have the misfortune of coming across chat rooms full of white guys who don’t want to have much to do with an Indian guy.

    In any case, I have been here only for 2 years but I did take it personally and since then have refused to date any white guys. I genuinely like only Asian guys. Now u might call it retro-racism.

    This will be my 2nd visit to BKK since that place looks at me as one of their own. Of course, there are a lot of GAMs desiring GWMs there too but there are enough to take care of me too.

    As of now, rather than sit here, I am using this formula.BKK is full of old fat GWMs in the company of really young GAMs-something that makes my blood boil. I pity those GAMs for their lack of self-esteem.

    Once again congratulations for stating the obvious but highly relevant issue of racism in gay community.

  93. December 2, 2003 at 5:26 PM

    I read quite a few of your essays over the past few months and found them to be interesting and thought provoking. I do not necessarily agree with everything, and hope things are not really as bad as you portray. I know there will always be bigots (I do live in the South) and there will also be those who feel they are victims, there is not much I can do about either.

    I have had LTR with both an older GWM and a younger GAM. I do like Asian guys a lot, but certainly would not ignore a good looking guy of another race. I’m not sure what that makes me (a fun loving guy?). Anyway, I’ll keep reading. Hope you find what you are looking for. Oh, and if you want to refer me to any nice bathhouses where I can find a nice middle age GAM… just let me know :)

  94. Tom
    November 5, 2003 at 6:52 PM

    I enjoyed your stories. Being a gwm who likes gam I am somewhat distressed to think you find all gwm just “use” gam for sex. I have dated some gam guys who made more money, dressed better, etc than I. They were educated articulate and aggressive. Not the pandering type you describe. You are correct, being gay is tough period. But you must not think all your fellow asian guys are flawed for dating gwm. Self esteem—well, one thing I pick up over and over is you suffer from low self esteem as well. My point, it a gam younger really loves a gwm, so what! I don’t think saying gwm who like gam is fetish. I find gam more fun, more open minded, more intellectual, more into sex, much more mature than their gwm counterparts. Now if that is a fetish, well, it is a good fetish vs dating young gwm who are immature, dumb, no class etc!!

  95. Josh
    November 5, 2003 at 3:44 PM

    I’ve read a few of your article online and found them interesting and insightful. But I want to encourage you to not give up hope. I happen to be a 33 year-old BiWM who is dating a GAM and living in the mid-west. We are both the same age and are happy together. I don’t see him as a “back up” and I don’t consider myself a rice queen. I have dated people of different backgrounds including white, black, & Asian. Maybe not all Gay white men are attracted to Asians, but try not to take it personally or be hurt by it. It’s a reflection on them more than on you or other Asians. Being a white male doesn’t mean you have it all together.

    I’m not saying that Asians should hold out hope for finding a Gay White Boyfriend, only that you should hold out hope for finding someone who will truly care for you. Regardless of what race that is. In the end, that’s what we all want someone to connect with that understands us without compromising ourselves. I feel lucky to have my BF and fortunate that we do not let preconceived stereotypes stand in our way. (Neither the Bisexual stereotype nor the Asian stereotype)

  96. Bo
    November 4, 2003 at 5:12 PM

    Your take makes me very sad. I always loved all minorities, and regretted I got to meet so few Asians. They are cute, sweet and very sexy. According to you, we’re damned rice queens if we do and damned racists if we don’t. I’m old now, but wish I was young again and knew that place that has so many frustrated Asian guys!

  97. October 22, 2003 at 2:19 PM

    I thought this would be an email and not another commercial, but never the less I was moved by the depth of your pain from your experiences of rejection, discrimination, and self esteem issues associated with gay bath attendance. The insights provided by therapy begin to deal with that pain, but the words of a Tibetan Buddhist teacher, Kalu Rinpoche, come to mind. When asked to comment on giving or receiving a good blowjob he responded, “Sentient beings in samsara will be sentient beings in samsara.”

    He had nothing against blowjobs, only our attachment and preoccupation. It is not easy to achieve or expect growth in a place dedicated to the single-minded gratification of every desire. Folks tend to shrink to the limits of their pleasure, their desires, their own narrow limits and beliefs, in short the opposite of growth beyond our infant selves. All spiritual traditions address this, but eastern “wisdom” has had a three thousand year head start. Its essence is nonjudgmental, non-prejudicial, non-aggressive, non-dual, and without limits. This white boy who has never had an Asian partner stands in awe.

  98. Tom
    October 1, 2003 at 11:54 PM

    When I was young and attractive I had no opportunities with GAMS. But when I was 40 and still attractive I met a young Thai and fell in love with Asians. Now I am old and fat but how do you deny ones still attraction to young GAMS. Remember no one escapes age so please be kind for someday you will be there with all of its frustrations. I recently had an affair with a young Chinese guy it was heaven but he thought I was too old. A couple of comments: A lot of white guys think Asians have small dicks. (Not true of course). Then they also may think that Asians are too clannish. Most American white guys are cut and many have a prejudice against uncut. (Don’t know what they are missing). Most Asians are uncut and that may be a turnoff for some. All of you GAMS get out there and teach those dummies about good Asian love. Cope

  99. September 4, 2003 at 4:05 PM

    I’m a white guy, but I LOVE to caress, lick, suck, fuck, and otherwise enjoy the company of sexy Asians. I don’t care whether he is white, brown, Latin, Asian or whatever, as long as he has something going on I’m all for it.

    Maybe I am in the minority, but that’s the way humanity has been forever, so no sense killing yourself over it. It’s a fact of life.

    Look for the good ones and forget the rest.

  100. Jamie
    August 30, 2003 at 5:08 PM

    Your page is very honest heartfelt and interesting.

    I want to tell you my story hope you take the time and that it doesn’t bore you stupid.

    From early teens I knew I was gay and had high self-esteem obviously I was a part of the majority and volunteer surf lifesaver interest from men just validated my existence. In Sydney I dated men from many ethnic backgrounds for many years I just followed my cock. My friends joked about it “Jamie only dates men that can speak two languages” or “if you want Jamie show him your visa stamp” all the time my friends tried to match make me with a white guy some very cute and nice some not. At that stage in my live I couldn’t see my self with a long-term lover.

    I not trying to say I’m great looking (even though I earn a good living from my face and body acting dancing modeling) I always thought my character was my strongest asset.

    Anyway that is beside the point this is what I want to share. I was conditioned to find Asian men unattractive until one night.

    I was at a gay pub in Sydney I noticed an Asian man next to me at the bar with a square handsome face and a lean built hot body and you know I remember thinking “what does he eat and what is his gym routine” I know how Sydney gay boy is that anyway at the time I didn’t give him a second thought some old guy was chatting with (or rather to) him.

    Then I heard him speak. He said to the old guy “I’m not your yellow taxi fuck off” And then other stuff I’m a language I didn’t know.

    At that moment he had me and I really looked at him he noticed I said something like “good on ya can I buy you a drink”

    That night we chatted laughed he was/is so sassy even then I was talking to him unattractive guys were hitting on him and he was like “look in that mirror behind the bar now look at him (me) go figure bye bye)” he asked me to put my arm around him because “I’m tired of being a bitch” I had really wanted to long before he asked.

    Anyway we dated the sex was amazing fluid hot tender and rough forget about top or bottom we wanted to experience it all with each other. His touch, skin, smell and taste drove me insane. I really believe that wasn’t and Asian fetish thing but a falling in love thing but you can decide for your self.

    Anyway over time I lost a lot of so called friends because I was dating and Asian guy well fuck em. The choice was a friend or a man I was in love with…dah!

    Over the next 2 years we shared a home etc he was getting very home sick so I applied for a visa to Japan and we sold everything and left.

    For whatever reason we broke up a year later I’m still in Japan because a got a great job doing what I love.

    Being single in Tokyo is tough. Your gwm and gam story you could easily change gam to gwm and gwm to gjm (gay Japanese man)

    I know hard to believe but I believe it I mean there are signs on some gay bars and bath houses that say “Japanese only” as a white man I often not aloud in I can clear a cruising space just by entering even people on the train will get up and stand rather then sit next to me.

    But that is Japan a place were people are genuinely shocked to hear a non Japanese person speaking Japanese or being able to use chopsticks but there are potato queens here too but the word is gaisen they mainly just scare me off.

    I mean after a month or so of feeling invisible (not just in the gay community) except of work colleges and mama san at the local shop on my street. I will find my self surrounded but 5 Japanese men all competing for me and really I just think “who am I do you know”

    Anyway the point is that I have only had 2 years as a single gay man living in a place where I’m not considered attractive or fuckable or sometimes even human.

    I know that I have just experienced a tiny amount of what you experience everyday it’s not even worth considering. All I really want to say is hang in there even though most gwm can’t imagine sleeping with or loving a gam and gam may all seem to want any gwm, try to leave a small space perhaps 2%. For men that will just want someone like you I mean the way you look think and act whether he is gam gwm gbm etc etc etc

    Oh.. and let your voice be heard it will piss alot of people off but someone out there needs your word young Asian men and the rest so maybe they will think on it

    In the mean time I’ll just follow my cock again maybe it will lead me to enough love of my life

  101. L. Roy
    July 29, 2003 at 3:40 PM

    I’m White with an Asian boyfriend who I like cause I’m attracted to HIM, not his race. It seems that if I like Asian men I’m a fetishist and if I don’t I’m a racist. You have a great blog but stop feeling sorry for yourself and other Asian men. Grow up!

  102. East Indian from Bangkok
    July 5, 2003 at 8:54 AM

    This is in reference to all the posts regarding ASIANS AND WHITES. Someone said Asians are feminine, some said Asians are after whites, some even said its a fetish, one guy said even Asians hate Asians.

    May I ask do you guys know what you’re talking about, do you have any idea. I come from India and guys in India are as masculine as anywhere else in the world. They are not after whites and they do love other Indians, not many guys there will be after race or skin colour but they try and look in your heart, don’t believe me go and look for yourself. Don’t make an image of Asia from Thailand or other such countries, the problem in Thailand is not Thai guys but old fat rice queens who made the things like this.

    It so great to see that Asian man to react to these articles and they talk. I wish all the Asians and Caucasians a very warm life full of love.

    We are in 2003 now, you are talking about racism, shame on you guys. You want to know what it is like to be an Asian. I tell you I have had friends from Asia and around the world and all around my age, I have been with white guys aged 20-30 who love Asian man. Maybe those who are annoyed are not because they don’t like Asians but they can’t get
    one.

    Or did any Asian rejected you !!!

  103. Charles Baker
    July 5, 2003 at 8:11 AM

    Hi: Reading some of your stories. Enjoy them, have many to read yet…I am American, have lived/worked in Asian countries since 1967. I was attracted to Asian guys early in life, and wanted to be where I could be with them, so live in Asia. I come from small town in PA. Nearest bathhouse in Pittsburgh 2 hours away. Never went. I don’t think I am superior to Asians. When I go to the sauna here, say 50 men are there, maybe of the 50 there are 3 foreigners (whites)..The Koreans do not swarm to me…I find they (95%) like there own kind, for reasons I don’t really understand…but when one that is attracted to me and I to him comes along, I feel good, that someone wants to be with me, even if only for a short period, then goodbye. I have little experience in stateside bars or sauna’s.

    I did go often in Hawaii every time I passed thru, until 1985 when the aids news became widespread…I never did the anal things much, was always scared. always careful since then. Anyway, when I return to the USA to finally stay. I hope I am fortunate to find a few Asian guys who might find me attractive and want me to touch them.

    Being old (regardless of race/colour) is not going to be pretty….so if an Asian would like to be with me, for whatever his reasons might be, I would feel that at least someone wants me.

    I probably am not expressing myself well, I am not a writer. I just am giving a few thoughts to you. I never knew there was a large amount of Asian guys whom actually prefer GWM…I myself have never been attracted to GWM’s except for my first experience which lasted 1 year. Funny, I was in Vietnam working at that time with Asians all around me…suppose that is why I became to like Asians so much. For me, it is not that I am attractive to most Asian guys, I am not.

    I get rejected more than I care to mention…Well, I guess that is enough. I shall read more of your stories. I can only relate to my life of living in Asia, where I am comfortable and can sometimes find someone who would like to be with me.

    Well, your stories are interesting and well written. I better stop…Thanks for your time…Charles

  104. Anonymous
    June 28, 2003 at 11:08 PM

    Regarding the pseudo-scientific musings a few pages back, it really amazes me that there are still white people out there so stupid that they would actually take the time to think this drool up.Am I supposed to take this as an example of the statistically inferior intelligence of Caucasian people? What makes it beyond pathetic is that someone who thought it up is a sadly deluded, genetically useless, behaviorally aberrant homosexual. Apparently it has never occurred to him what that “scientifically” means.

  105. June 19, 2003 at 4:06 PM

    I am a 25 years old GAM. I read about your racism experience. Here is my personal experience. As far as racism, I had only been rejected once by an Iceland guy, that’s about it. I had slept with people that is as old as 49 and as young as 18. They are white. I had dated CK model while I lived in NYC. My personal experience is when you are in a big cities like NYC, or DC, people tends to care less about races. One thing I found about Asians in the States are they don’t like each other. Oh, well, I am trying to make a point but I don’t think I did.

  106. June 14, 2003 at 11:09 AM

    I found your articles very interesting. I’m knew to the gay scene, so a lot of this stuff is new to me. I fall into that 5% I guess. I am attracted to Asian males. I noticed too that they were attracted to me. After reading your articles I realized what you said is true. I did notice that this happens a lot, Asians gay men desiring to be with white gay men regardless of age. I see personal ads all the time of Asians from abroad seeking white males as a companion so that they can leave their country for a better opportunity. Most didn’t care about age at all. It really bothers me to see this happening.

  107. Rob
    May 31, 2003 at 8:41 AM

    I must say I was quite surprised by all the racism you’ve found. I myself have been blessed (cursed?) with good looks and a pretty good body. I’m 54 but look about 40. None of the boyfriends or lovers I ever had in my life have been magazine covers, but they have been beautiful to me. My only requirement has been that a man be height/weight proportionate. Race, ethnicity, or physical challenge have never been an issue for me. Real beauty comes from within. I’ve tried the baths a few times in my life, but they’re just not for me. I have a dear friend that I’ve known for about 20 years. We live quite far apart, but manage to get together at least twice a year…and it’s definitely worth the wait. Until another good friend comes my way, I have a vivid imagination and a good left hand.

  108. grecc0
    May 28, 2003 at 6:42 AM

    It’s a very interesting website. Particularly interesting the story where you mention about GAM-GWM racism. I happen to be a Mediterranean GWM 24yo and although I am quite picky about the guys I fancy, I don’t mind whether they’re black, Latinos or Europeans. But I admit, if I had to choose between a hot Asian and a hot GWM, I’d choose the Asian. I don’t know if that makes me a rice queen, to be honest I don’t care what others may think. I don’t like all Asian guys, just those few who are my type, same as with GWM. I do love Asian eyes and their smooth skin. And am not really into the skinny submissive fem stereotype (although fem can be sexy sometimes ;-), even myself am active.

    So far I haven’t been to bathhouse, but since I got to London I noticed that there’s only a couple of (gay) bars or clubs where I can also see Asians, apart from other races. They seem to stick together at one or two places. When I asked an Asian guy whether it is because they like it, he said ‘we actually hate those places, but whenever we tried going somewhere else, we were laughed off or even verbally attacked’. I find this bit hard to believe, but then again, it might be true.

    I went to those ‘Asian’ places a couple times. The first time I was shocked to find out I was probably the only Caucasian younger than 35 or so, if not more. There nothing wrong with younger guys being into guys in there 30s. I find guys in the 30s can be real sexy n fit (Asian too!) But it made me sad to watch all those 60yo guys sweating, trying to dance at Kylie’s songs with their MUCH younger Asian partners. Next to them, a small team of late 20’s-early 30’s real good-looking Asian guys that seem to stick with themselves. I didn’t even try to talk to them, for some reason I had a feeling I’d be rejected immediately. :)

    I hope that as time passes Asian guys will realize that there’s nothing special about GWM, that their own race can be just as attractive, and developing reverse racism (against all GWM) is just as pointless. Just go out and get the young guy you fancy, Asian or not ;-)

  109. Charing x
    May 27, 2003 at 12:21 PM

    While it is true that Asian guys tend to be shorter and of slighter frame, I don’t think that this explains why most guys aren’t attracted to Asian guys.

    Dating works like a market. Each of us has a certain amount of “mate value” that we can exchange in return for certain traits that we want in a partner. While most of us would like to find someone that is stunningly attractive, smart, kind, funny, talented, etc., the fact of the matter is that few of us are able to get everything that we want in a partner. So we make trade-offs. Sometimes, we’ll sacrifice few IQ points in exchange for a pretty smile, or we forgive those few extra pounds on our partner because he is kind and devoted. You get the idea.

    For many people, two extremely salient characteristics in their potential partners are race and age. All other things being equal, most gay guys prefer someone that is young and white. But because not all of us can get everything that we want, we made trade-offs. That’s why you often see younger Asian guys with older white guys. The Asian guys trade race for age; the white guys trade age for race.

    But there’s an important caveat in the “economic model” of dating: the issue of necessities versus luxuries. There are some traits that we deem so important in a partner that we are unwilling to compromise on them. They are what we consider necessities. Being a male, for example, is a necessity that gay men require in their partners. It doesn’t matter how smart or funny or talented a woman is, she’s still a female—and no amount of extras (i.e. luxuries) will make up for that. Similarly, for many gay men, a particular race (or particular races), is a necessity in their partners. At least where I’m located, that’s almost always white or Hispanic. So, if you’re Asian, for example, it doesn’t matter how many ‘extras’ or ‘luxuries’ you can bring to the table, because you don’t meet the original, ‘first-pass’ requirements.

    And where else is race conveyed but the face? Body type is only marginally linked to race. Your accuracy for judging race is near 100% based on faces; I would suspect that it would be much, much lower if you were only looking at bodies. I think that race, as conveyed through facial features, is a necessity for most gay men, while body type is a luxury. That’s why the uber-buff Asian guy, who works out so hard to have a ‘white porn star’s body,’ will still have a very difficult time competing on the dating market. He doesn’t meet the ‘first-pass’ filter. Race rules him out right away.

    Of course, this doesn’t really address why race is salient or why certain facial features are preferred in the first place. Judgments of attractiveness are not arbitrary. In fact, there is a wealthy of literature showing that people are remarkably similar in their judgments of attractiveness. Facial and bodily symmetry, for example, is a universally liked trait. It turns out that this spans the animal kingdom, and animals with greater symmetry enjoy greater mating success. Why does this matter? Because it turns out that symmetry is a signal of good genes and protection from developmental perturbations. There is a biological reason why we prefer what we prefer.

    The same applies to facial attractiveness. The face contains a host of testosterone markers. Why do people like guys with lantern jaws and strong brows? Because they are loaded with testosterone receptors. Sexual differentiation occurs mostly in the womb, under the influence of prenatal hormones and mediated by a person’s genetic makeup. Testosterone also makes the middle of the face grow forward. Put simply, Asian guys’ faces are less masculine than white guys’ faces. What’s more, the vast majority of gay men prefer masculinity in their partners, particularly with respect to physical appearance. But I don’t think this preference is arbitrary or cultural, and it’s certainly not limited to only gay men. Straight Asian guys also lament that they can’t get much action, because a lot of Asian girls are winding up with white guys. Likewise, I have heard (admittedly anecdotal) stories about how gay white guys in Asia mop up in terms of romantic success. But the gay men there have been exposed to other Asian guys all their life, so you can’t say that it’s because they’ve been inculcated by the media to accept a ‘eurocentric’ view of beauty. At the very least, why don’t Asian men in America enjoy the same romantic success that white guys in Asia do? And why don’t gay Asian guys in America prefer other Asian guys, if cultural factors are assumed to be all-important?

    I know that I’ve oversimplified some issues for the sake of brevity. I also recognize that the ideas I’ve put forth are very controversial. I’m basically suggesting that Asian guys are objectively less attractive than white guys. But I think this hypothesis has greater explanatory power than all the other competing hypotheses.

    I have no doubt that if you are racist, for example, you will discriminate across many domains, including dating and sex. But the reverse does not hold true, that if you don’t like Asian guys, then you are a racist. I suspect the racism hypothesis accounts for very little of the variance, as they say in statistics. Most gay guys who express a preference for white guys (or whatever) are not racist. You may say that they are subconsciously racist, but that’s armchair theorizing for which there is no data, and it doesn’t fit with the other pieces of the puzzle. Presumably, Asian guys would be the least likely to discriminate against other Asian guys, and yet they show the same preferences that the rest of the gay community does. I don’t buy the internalized racism argument either. There’s no convincing evidence for it. And why don’t other minorities experience the internalized racism phenomenon? There are far more Hispanic guys hooking up with one another than Asian guys hooking up with one another. The racism hypothesis just doesn’t fit the puzzle.

    I’ve got lots more to say about these issues (like why it is that some men, albeit a minority, are attracted to Asian guys, why black guys are also not preferred, etc.) and other caveats to make. But I’m tired of typing. Email me back if you want to discuss.

    • Shut up Charing x
      May 27, 2003 at 8:23 PM

      Just because you can hide your racism by using 20-dollar words doesn’t change anything. You are a fucking racist bigot and full of bullshit. Why are you on this site if you think Asian people are the ugly race that you think it is. Go to a white rules website or some shit like that. White supremacy doesn’t belong here you white trash asshole.

  110. May 17, 2003 at 8:21 PM

    As a gay white male who dates exclusively Asian men, I am surprised that you and others think white men are prejudiced by you. Obviously, we have never met. If other white guys are biased against, so be it. There are more Asian men for me to date.

  111. Zaki
    May 15, 2003 at 5:08 PM

    I hope you are in the best of health. Firstly I would like to thank you for writing this article. Keep writing them and hopefully it will transpire others to share with you similar thoughts:-)

    My name is Zaki and I am from Singapore. A friend of mine forward me your article. I must say I find the premise of your contents illuminating and yet so familiar. Issues such as ageism and racism are very stark in gay community. It is sad but its reality. Reading your article, I can relate in a way that in Singapore GWM is being worshipped by the local GAM; irregardless how they look. As long as you are white, no matter how old or ugly, the moment they saunter in a club, all this GAM will be slinking towards them like leeches. On one hand I find it amusing but yet on the other hand, I feel sad for these GAM. Its as if they think that these GWM has more qualities than their local peers. Hooking up with GWM is like a triumph for them. Pleassee!

    Personally I am not attracted to GWM at all. And I don’t take no shit about all this white man superiority. I think we Asians should take pride on being who we are; our rich diverse cultures. Why are we still in this pre colonialist mode? By behaving this way, we are not much different from our forefathers which were colonized by the all these western powers. In fact we are empowering these GWM in reinforcing all these stereotypes of Asians even deeper. Until we learn to respect ourselves, nobody will.

    All I can say is that I am proud being an Asian (Chinese-Malay parentage). Its who I am. I am no submissive docile GAM who will know tow to a white guy simply because of his colour. What I think we need to do is to change our mindsets! Learn to be more assertive with ourselves and others.

  112. Gamma
    April 23, 2003 at 10:53 AM

    I find your comments as to why a GAM is only attracted to GWMs a gross generalization and somewhat offensive. Being GAM, I grew up in an Asian country but have lived in Europe and Australia for more years than Asia. My attraction to GWMs is purely physical. Socially, I get along with all races, but for long as I can remember, my sexual fantasy has always been with GWMs. To me, being attracted to GWMs only is like being born gay, I cannot explain why, but only know I am. May be because I’ve always liked the slightly older, husky, muscular, Marlboro-man type – I don’t see many GAM that sort of fits that criteria!

  113. April 4, 2003 at 8:46 PM

    I am an Asian and I never went home with empty hands every time I visit bath house.I prefer other Asians but won’t say no to any attractive guys in different races. Maybe it’s Los Angeles. And I met lots of White guys crazy about Asian only. Your wrote great stories but I just can’t agree on your point of racism.

  114. Liew Min
    March 22, 2003 at 11:25 PM

    I’m a GAM myself and can identify with a lot of what your saying. I’ve had my share of bathhouse sex – and have generally enjoyed it. I can honestly say I never felt guilty about having quickie sex – and I don’t even mind the trolls that drool over me. One day I will be one of them I’m sure. I’d let one suck me every time I went – of course I wouldn’t let just anybody do me – but it seems like the right thing to do sometimes.

  115. February 19, 2003 at 10:07 AM

    Just stumbled on your essay page as I have been surfing the net due to a cold have only had a chance to read a few of you stories but have downloaded the rest so I can read them later,As a white man living with and very much in love with an Asian man I found your points of view very interesting send me your mail address and I will let you know what I think when I get through them.

  116. February 13, 2003 at 8:08 AM

    I must say that while I do indeed confess to being a “rice queen” (though that very term itself is racist), I agree that some older white men like Asians only because they look young, I must disagree that all of them feel this way. There are quite a few older white men who have an exclusive interest in Asians not necessarily for reasons of smooth skin etc., but rather for reasons that are not so easy to explain. However, like you, I am around the age of thirty (29), but look more like 22. I’m slim, smooth and boyish, like some of the Asian guys I’m interested in. I have, since I was *12*, been exclusively attracted to Asian guys, and I always will be. Am I to be labelled as a “typical old rice queen” when I really do grow old? That’s an unsettling thought.

    I want to say that I object to the way some people look down on me for my exclusive interest in Asian guys. It is not something superficial and worthy of mockery. I have gone so far as to have learned an Asian language and moved to an Asian country because of my “preference”, which is as central to me as being gay.

    Just to assure you that I don’t take advantage of “potato queens” and their obsession with white men, the Japanese guy I am dating now is the same age as me, and has only ever dated other Japanese in the past. Japanese *girls*, that is. I have adapted to his way of life in his country, using only his language when with him (he speaks no English). I think I might be breaking the mould of the stereotypical “rice queen” here.

    Having said all that, this is a very interesting site – keep it up.

  117. Dee Gee
    January 27, 2003 at 3:21 AM

    There are many men of all ages who are interested in Asian men.

    To call sexual attraction , or lack of it “racist” is to not understand racism.

    I’ve heard this all before from Asian men , who just because on any given night, in a bar, do not get hit on. I could tell you a lot of stories myself that would clear your perspective! At 23 , I went to a bathhouses and met a beautiful Asian man ( I am white ). I was with a beautiful Asian man for 10 years that was hit on every time he walked into any room ( and still is ).

    I am still with an Asian man , and I know all of the answers – much too much to place here. At the ” Baths ” , I have often turned down the most gorgeous of white men just to wait for the Asian or Latin guy – and the ones that I turn down are being chased by other Asians.

    There are so many factors involved here, not the least of all being : If these guys see one in the Baths all the time, maybe they think he is just too loose or worn out? Just one of the possibilities. Kind of like : “Oh, that guy again”.

  118. Stephen Lam
    January 17, 2003 at 11:51 PM

    Although I appreciate the honesty in your stories your one-person viewpoint on GWM and GAM relationships is rather limited and masochistic. Although there is some truth to your theory that many Asians only like white guys while the reverse can not be said, I want to point out that your experience is confined to a particular locale and any generalization is misleading.

    Not every rejection is due to race. And somehow all your stories always come down to being ignored by a white man because of your yellow skin. Have you ever thought maybe he’s rejecting you because of the mole on your arm (if you had one) or the way you wear your bath towel?

    The way I see it just be proud of who you are and fuck the people who won’t give you a second look. Stop comparing yourself to a white man. Rick Schroeder? Gimme a break.

    Believe me, there’s a whole world out there away from that stinking bigoted rat hole of a bathhouse where Asians are getting laid and desired by whites, blacks, Latinos, Arabs, Jews and even other Asians! So go out there and find someone who can see beyond the color line and appreciates and loves you for whom you are. Peace, Stephen

  119. K Leong
    January 2, 2003 at 7:00 AM

    Your observations really hit the bull eyes. IMHO, Asians in North America really have problems dealing with their self-image. They couldn’t love themselves unless white men considered as the main stream in the gay society validate them. And they couldn’t see that this behavior bear some self-hatred characteristic. Most of them do not view their behavior as such and denial seems to be the norm. Call me a pessimist; these Asians in North America will continue searching for the white gay men’s validation.

  120. Johnny B
    January 2, 2003 at 2:43 AM

    Just to let you know, you have a wonderful site. I’ve read most of the chapters and find it very interesting. I’m a 33 y/o GWM with a 37 y/o GAM partner. I know what Asian guys go thru, because I’ve seen it first hand. Not at the bathhouses, but at clubs and with my friends. When I first started going out with him, my friends were laughing at me, saying, “what, lowering your standards? Can’t find a white guy?” I found it very insulting to him and to me. I dumped those friends quick. Even at the clubs, I’ve had white guys see my partner and me together, and totally ignore him and start hitting on me. Right in front of him. I said to one of them, I’m here with my boyfriend, and the guy hitting on me said, “I thought you’d like a real man.” I started laughing and said, I’ve already got one. Well, sorry to drone on, but not all white guys is that bad. There are a few good ones out there. Just seem to be hard to find.

  121. Jan Stranders
    January 1, 2003 at 5:58 PM

    Writing from Poland! A very interesting series of essays. I am particularly interested in your take on the racism issue.

    In your essays you have all the basic material for a novel or screenplay about the secretive world of the bathhouse – and with your powers of self-expression either medium is within your grasp.

  122. cuteguy4play
    December 29, 2002 at 2:50 PM

    Hey, I’m a thirtysomething Asian guy in NYC, and I wanted to let you know how much I liked your site. I’ve been following it for some time and have wanted to drop you a line.

    You are SO RIGHT about the way in which we GAMs are treated by the GWM community, bathhouse or otherwise!

    Anyway, I have a totally worked out body and cute face to boot (so I’m told), but I can’t tell you how many MORE hits my body pic gets when I don’t describe myself as a GAM or Asian on my online profiles, etc.

    Anyway, keep up the great work, and I hope to hear back from you at some point.

    Later, cuteguy4play

  123. December 28, 2002 at 9:02 PM

    I moved from Albuquerque this summer. It was just as bad for the Native Americans. I really enjoyed your articles. It did make me examine why I do find Asians attractive. I have been with just about every nationality, even a guy that cerebral palsy. I like to think I am open-minded. But it’s true, none of my friends find Asian guys attractive. I have never understood. I also liked your comments about age. You’re right, it doesn’t matter what shape you’re in. It seems anyone attracted to me is really just interested in other benefits,$$$. Thanks for sharing your views

  124. December 28, 2002 at 8:50 PM

    Well I don’t know what to say. I loved reading your stories!! They are very addicting!! I am sorry to hear that you are going through a rough time. Just remember things will get better. I just wanted to say that I am a gay white male 24 years of age and ONLY DATE ASIAN MEN. I have always been attracted to them for as long as I can remember. I am definitely a Rice Queen. I even watch Shows on TV in Mandarin or Korean and have no clue what they are saying its just the guys in them turn me on. I don’t know what it is but I am literally OBSESSED with Asian Men. I think I have only slept with a total of 2 guys that were non-Asian!! And that was when I first came out at 17 and was surrounded by only Caucasian men living in New Hampshire. I moved to California when I was 18 and have been here ever since. I just love the diversity!! It has been a real uplifting experience for me being here! I am sorry to hear all of the trouble you have a had at the Baths. That really pisses me off that people can treat you like that. Sometimes I wish I was not white. I am ashamed to be associated with a race that treats other races like shit!! It’s not fair!! I just wanted to express myself to you and let you know that there was another white guy out there that was attracted to Asians only! Anyway I guess that’s all for now!! Take Care, Art – Hope to hear from you!!

  125. December 29, 2001 at 2:38 AM

    I was thinking, you must live in a bad area if you cant find a guy to love. but, I love Asians, I’m white and have been attracted to very few white people. I figured out I was gay at 30. until then I didn’t date white women (preferring blacks) I had proposed to 1 white and 5 non whites. then I found out I was gay and only go out with non whites well that’s a lie , I been out with 3. my friends are mostly white cause we have much in common, but I’m not attracted to them. with women it was body imperfections . they showed more on whites. but with men , I love Asian eyes, black hair. and I don’t like guys bigger than me.

    but at your age it is hard to find that someone special. I found in my 30s that Asians were either in a relationship, or at the baths and not looking for one, or HIV and not looking. Except for your contempt towards whites, you sound perfect to me

    in the past 10 years I’ve had gonnorea from sucking dick, urinary infection form being sucked, etc. thank god I’m -. but you cant hide from life. I love dick. so I suck it. I just hoe when I’m old and alone there is an old Asian out there for me that’s where people think I’m weird, I don’t want an Asian teenager or in his 20s. I like guys my age.

  126. D.O.
    December 11, 2001 at 8:16 AM

    Hi, first off I thank you for sharing your experiences… being a Chinese guy myself, I understand you perfectly…

    Here in MS, the bible belt region, being gay and Asian is just plain hard.. I found it impossible to look for a boyfriend… and so I usually have to settle with some casual sex.. with mostly older people.. I am now 23 years old. I have been rejected countless times because of my race. It really hurts a lot.. Young white guys just don’t want to have anything to do with a Chinese gay guy.. it really sucks…

    However, I think I can relate to how the white guys feel towards us. You see, most people here are in the closet and it would look awkward to have a couple of different race to walk together around here.. Being gay here is like a very bad thing… but having a gay partner of a different race is just going to be strange… the question the white dudes are facing is how are they going to cover up their identity. If they pair off with their own kind, it is easier to come up with a story… but with an Asian guy… his friends will start asking questions… and thus his cover blown… THAT is the theory I come up with..

    You see I was not from here originally… I was from Malaysia… and there, we had 3 major races… Though the Chinese population were not the majority, we were the rich community there and thus most Chinese folks thrives the big cities… Being so, most gay folk in the cities were Chinese… hence the Chinese were the majority among the gay community. It was as though we were the white boys here… we never want to have sex with the other ethnic groups… we prefer our own kind for reasons that we could easily cover up our identity… and of cause the culture diversity.

    Here however, I really feel like a minority.. and life really sucks to be at the bottom of the community… However, I still really do like white young guys… it’s just a pity they don’t like me.

  127. Luke
    November 30, 2001 at 12:29 PM

    I won’t disagree with your theory that there are Caucasian men who take advantage of Asian men. There are a lot of shit heads out there. Nor will I disagree with the fact that there are white men who aren’t attracted to Asian men. But, dude, you aren’t attracted to Asian men either. We are all attracted to different physical types because of some sort of aesthetic psycho quirk.

    Let’s jump out of gay culture for a minute and look at this from a larger sociological perspective. Whoa did I really say that? I live in northern California where there is a large Asian population.

    In my circle, I have 4 really good straight male friends. 2 Asian; 2 white. The 2 Asian men are married to white women; the 2 white guys are married to Asian women. In this neck of the woods you see a lot of Asian/Caucasian pairing; straight and gay. Why? I don’t know.

    I’m a white guy but I’ve never been sexually attracted to white men. Why? I don’t know. My first boyfriend was Asian. I had a 15 year relationship with an Asian man. Since he passed away suddenly 3 years ago, I’ve been with Asian men exclusively. Why? I know the answer to this one. I find Asian men unbelievably beautiful. To me, there is nothing more exquisite than Asian eyes. I melt in an Asian gaze. And that beautiful velvety skin. Those cute bubble butts. Moreover, I find Asian men to be intelligent, caring, and funny. And perhaps because of the family and cultural repression you’ve written about, when Asian men are comfortable with you and let go, I find them to be incredibly playful, passionate, and loving. Even for just a night. What’s there not to like here?

    You’ve created something special and unique with this site both from the standpoint of gay bath house culture and — while probably not intentional — the sexual psychology between Asian and white men. I love your perspective even if I sometimes don’t agree with it. Your writing is honest, straight forward and very engaging. Trust me, there are many men out there that would cherish a relationship with you. From the standpoint of the gay scene and rejection, well, what is . . . is.

    But I think you’re selling us white dudes short. Are there older white guys who go after Asian men because it’s all they can get? Probably. Are there older white guys who go after Asian men because, in their eyes, Asian men are beautiful? I think this position has not been given enough credit in your writing or the view of many of your Asian readers. My perspective: white men seeking Asian men seeking white men for all the right and natural reasons isn’t as rare as you seem to think.

    So there. :)

    Your fan and all around righteous Asian lover,

    Luke

  128. James
    November 20, 2001 at 4:57 PM

    Hi ya. I have read a few of your stories and do intend to read them all. I just got to like the 6th one and then decided to go back and read Racism. What you say about gay Asians seems to ring perfectly true to me. I am only attracted to a very specific line of hairy masculine white men. I have experimented with a few other races (Hispanic, black, & Indian ). I have ultimately come to the conclusion that I am indeed only attracted to the hairy white guy type. Anyway, none of that really matters, I was just letting you know where I’m coming from. I am a fairly good looking (OK, I’m hot but modest) young, thin, masculine (not to be confused with muscular) Hispanic male. I do not think that you were wanting people to know which bathhouse it was that you frequented, but I am assuming it is Not the one in Austin, TX. Because I can tell you honey, that attractive gay Asians are big competition for me, heh. I have met many highly attractive gay guys who have moved to Austin just because they like Latino boys. These same guys also (as some of them have told me) like young blacks, Philippines, Asians…, anything “exotic”. I don’t know what your financial situation is like, or how far away you are. But I think you should swing by this way if you ever get a chance.. The bathhouse in Austin sux really really bad. it’s a nasty, dirty, small place. But it’s home, :P. I am quite enamored of the baths in San Antonio however. It’s not the best, but it’s much better than the one in Austin. I don’t want this to come off sounding like I pity you, I don’t think (from what I’ve read thus far), that you are pathetic or anything like that. It’s just that you might not feel quite as “rejected” here. Any way’s, feel free to shoot me an e-mail. I really like your stories.

  129. David
    November 9, 2001 at 9:45 AM

    I’m quite disturbed by what you have written. I suppose many people think I’m a rice queen, but I deny that. Most of my experiences have been with Asians, but that’s because Asian men are so good looking, usually friendly, and great lovers.

    In my experience, a lot of GAMs have serious problems with their self-image. For example, there’s a really hot looking guy I’ve been seeing recently. Matter of fact I met him in the baths. He is so cute; I just love his eyes, which are really thin; his nose, which is flat and turned up; his face; his cheeks; his hair; his body. Geez, I love spending time with him. Yet whenever I tell him how really attractive I find him he says, no, he’s ugly, old and fat. My goodness, he couldn’t weigh more than 65KG, and he’s only 26, compared to my 84KG and 40. (Yeh, yeh, you’re going to put me down as another old guy chasing young Asian boys. Forget it; that’s not the way it is.) How could he say that he’s ugly when he’s so cute? I know why he says he’s old: It’s because his hair has started to recede. Big deal. Who cares? He’s not fat, but he’s not got a gym-toned body. He’s just a really great looking guy. So why does he beat up on himself? I’ve seen this before, many times. I think it’s an Asian thing. Mind you, I think I’m fat (which I am) and ugly (so many people say I’m not) so maybe self-image problems are generic. I’m rambling.

    Why am I disturbed? You say that almost all GWMs ignore you. You say that you just want to meet someone sincere. Is it possible that you give off ‘not interested’ vibes without meaning to? I find it very difficult to approach a guy. I’m a shy sort. If I see someone cute I just cannot bring myself to say hello. And I notice that a lot of GAMs look down when I glance at them. Is that a ‘go away’ look? Maybe, yet I sometimes discover that no, it’s shyness, too.

    I feel sorry that you are lonely, but I think you bring a lot of it on yourself. I agree that you shouldn’t do anything that you don’t want to, but sucking is considered a safer form of sex, and you won’t do that. Oh sure, let them suck you; just don’t expect it back. What message are you sending? And you won’t do anal at all. Some guys don’t, but it’s pretty rare to find someone who won’t suck, won’t fuck, won’t be fucked, just wants to cuddle and talk. I love cuddling and talking, and I love to kiss. (Do you kiss? Worried about saliva borne HIV?) Yet I also love to suck and be sucked, and I love to fuck and be fucked, and if a guy hardly wants to touch me, well that feels like a rejection. I think you give off the message that you are so superior; and that they are so dirty. I don’t mean to be rude, or hyper-critical, rather I mean to tell you how you sound to me, an unbiased reader. (Unbiased? Hell, I’m emotionally inclined to take your side because you’re probably drop dead gorgeous, and I really like Asians.)

    I get ignored by most guys in the baths; this is not a GWM/GAM thing. But I generally find something, too. And when I do I really want him to feel good. So yes, I suck him. And if he wants we’ll do anal, I’ll even fuck if he wants, even though I prefer being bottom. I touch, and lick, and kiss, and cuddle and talk. I’d say about a third of my good friends are people I had sex with in the baths.

  130. John Auyong
    October 24, 2001 at 2:05 AM

    Saw this story in the Seattle Mochi Balls Queer & Asian newsletter, a few days after some friends had a debate about why many Asian guys only date white guys. Also, the “referred by” section has sites I’d never heard of. I don’t have time to get into my bathhouse stories, but I applaud you for maintaining this site. I’m sure once I get through all the stories, I will have learned a lot.

  131. Al
    October 13, 2001 at 11:12 AM

    I connected with your website through a link with OG magazine. Of course, by visiting and subscribing to OG Magazine, you would know that I have more than a passing interest in Asian guys. First, let me say that I read all your stories and applaud you for allowing us to share an important part of your life these past 10 years. Secondly, I noticed that much of your disappointment during those years, centres on the fact that you haven’t met that “one true love”. It is apparent from your writings that this “love” will come in the form of some GWM who’s in your age range and not some older (50 to 65 year old) man who seems more of a bother to you when you’re at the baths. You also appear to be bewildered by the frequent “rejections” and why some (less attractive) others “score” where you do not. My question to you , and all Gay Asian Males is: “Have you ever thought that maybe your “one true love”, or the person you will connect best with, will come in the form of a Latino, a Black or even another Asian?” I truly don’t understand this (almost) obsession with being accepted and loved by some GWM. Third, and finally, I’d like to thank you for sharing these experiences with me and others. They were really a nice insight to the goings-on within the walls of a bathhouse. And for those of us who have never visited one it may provide the urge to go. I will add that although the baths may/can provide the opportunities for more sex than one would normally get outside, I doubt very seriously if true love can be found there.

  132. Leo
    October 13, 2001 at 10:02 AM

    I read with great interest your accounts in the bathhouse. I am new in town (Chinese from Singapore). I am very much like yourself, who do not like clubbing but visit bathhouses (in Singapore) when needed. I am suffering from withdrawal here in Pittsburgh. I know there is only 1 bathhouse here and it’s supposedly a private club. Another (main) reason is that, unlike you, I actually prefer Asian (in particular Chinese) instead of Caucasian. From your writeup about being rejected as a Chinese, I figured I have to accept the fact and continue with the safest sex (that is, solo) while I am in town!

  133. KF
    October 11, 2001 at 8:55 PM

    Well I have read your stories, very interesting. I am a black young male who adores Asian men, especially Filipinos and Vietnamese. I think Asian men are one of the most beautiful men in the world. However if you really like white YOUNG guys move to Toronto Canada. Asian men tend to have more younger white boyfriends than older ones here. Plus we are the worlds’ most multicultural City.

  134. Carlos
    September 14, 2001 at 3:04 AM

    I felt I had to write you something. I feel so close to you reading your stories. It’s funny, we seem to be exactly opposite and yet going through some very same experiences. You are an Asian in America, I am a white guy in Asia. And guess what? I feel a lot of rejection here too. I admit I am not such a wonderful guy, but like you, I have seen many guys not so good-looking get luckier than me… I have only started going to bathhouses, so I am talking of rejection in general. Anyway, great site, maybe we can be friends if you like.

  135. Albert
    September 11, 2001 at 10:44 AM

    Hi, I surfed in your website. The story is great. I was very sad to read ‘racism’, because i was dealing with the same problem, which I only realized after reading your story. It makes me frustrated, but I have learned to accept the truth. Though life seems meaningless and unfair. I made up my mind to stay single. Maybe the one will come, but you just have to be patient.

  136. Dave
    September 3, 2001 at 12:02 AM

    I may challenge your observations. I am a 28 year-old white male. Blond/Blue eyes, tall and thin, and I prefer all Asians. I have a Taiwanese boyfriend, who I haven’t met yet. I prefer all Asian friends as well. My best friend is Korean, even though he is heterosexual and doesn’t know about me. Feel free to email back, I have picture.

  137. Interplanetary Craft
    August 19, 2001 at 1:31 PM

    There’s something in the way in which you (sort of) denigrate Asian men that makes me feel all horrible and nauseated — not least because I feel the same way, too. Well, okay, I live in Singapore, so I know quite a few Asian gay and lesbian (actually, only one lesbian) friends — and they’re all “normal” enough people. But I’m attracted to none of them. And I had crushes on quite a few straight classmates (Chinese, of course) but nothing ever came out of those infatuations. What makes me feel absolutely crushed after reading your site is the suggestion that Asian guys would never find a normal Caucasian boyfriend — one with no fetishes, or who’s not a wrinkled old pervert. And I know that’s probably true. And I think I’ve a “flat” face. Plus I’ve been studying for 2/3 of my life. Aaaargh.

  138. Eric
    August 14, 2001 at 9:48 PM

    Hi, It’s nice to have someone write about bathhouse, especially a Chinese guy. I really appreciate reading your writings — very interesting and intriguing! I just started reading. I’ll continue to read them all overtime. Keep writing the stories. However, I’d have to differ from you on your writing of “Racism”. I am a Chinese too. I had a few visits to various bathhouses in different cities. The reason that I started going there is that I am an exhibitionist, and enjoy others to love me (touching, massaging, sucking, praising, etc.). But I love to return the favor to only a very tiny number of females and males (usually I could not find). I found that white women don’t like Asian boys that much because Asians are too “skinny”. However, I found that white males love Asians (because “nice smooth body”, “soft skin”, “hard muscle”, “cute”, “hard cock”, etc.). I found that I was able to get a lot of “service” from young to middle aged men in the bathhouses without me returning anything. In fact, like you are, I do not engage in anal sex, nor sucking cocks (not even with condemn). All I may do, if I found someone very attractive, is hugging/body massaging and hand stoking. I was also stopped several times by white guys on the street of San Francisco and bars. I am not the traditional definition of “gay”. But I found comfort by going to gay places.

  139. August 6, 2001 at 5:16 AM

    You are such an excellent writer. I read each essay and was struck by how well written they are and by how they made my heart sink with empathy. I am Hispanic and I have felt rejection and discrimination since I was a small child in school. I know the hurt personally, but I have learned that for that 95% that rejects you, there is that 5% chance of hope. Now in my early thirties, I am just starting to make sense of all this. I feel fortunate to have come across your writings. While I have never been to bathhouse, I recognize the shallow attitudes you describe. You have a voice that makes you “visible” and not “invisible” to people who care about what you think and write. I truly believe you should seriously consider using this material for a book. I wish you the best in life and commend you for giving your honesty and insight to anyone who visits you website. Kindest regards, Daniel

  140. Braden
    July 30, 2001 at 5:23 AM

    After reading just a little bit of your writing I feel compelled to write and tell you that it is not true that all Caucasians dislike Asians. I am a Caucasian from Canada who loves Asian men. I admit I didn’t read a lot of your pages (perhaps I will again later) but please I have to tell you….don’t give up on love. I went through a similar experience of never finding anyone and always being rejected and finally, much to my surprise, I met and fell in love with a most gorgeous young Chinese man. We have been together for four years now. I love what you are doing–brutal honesty in writing brings healing. So many need in the gay community need healing. All the best to you.

  141. Seng
    July 20, 2001 at 6:56 PM

    Interesting in US no near-your-age GWM interested in Asian?? Maybe the US is different from Europe, I dunno but I was approached by a near-my-age WM in Switzerland bath house. Of course I m near yr age and neither look cute or good look ( I guess I m ugly). Anyway, I m not interested in WM either. So I turned away. OK wishing u luck…I know gay life is tough, hope yr spirit never die.

  142. Martin
    June 30, 2001 at 5:45 AM

    I just read your story “Racism” and I am sorry that I do not know you. I LOVE Asian men and cannot understand why others do not….

  143. Justin
    June 16, 2001 at 9:28 AM

    It’s amazing that your personal insights are mirror reflections of what I believe a “universal” phenomenon, particularly among Asians living in North America. I myself was brought up in the gay-bath culture and have certainly experienced many similar things that you have mentioned in your stories. I can only say, we truly live in a gay global village, whether you are in San Francisco, Miami, Toronto, or Montreal…..Good work!

  144. Joe
    June 14, 2001 at 9:01 PM

    Hi, nameless person. I feel for you. Being depressed, having problems with not being out to your family, all these things really suck. But I think you may be going to the wrong place. You want a hot tub, a nice relaxing place and watch the news naked with a nice fire going, come to my house in the country. I don’t want to sound nasty, but sometimes you get what you deserve in a bathhouse. These people aren’t good enough for real live relationships, and from your stories you know that. Isn’t an afternoon or evening spent hugging, kissing, feeling, talking to another person the goal? Isn’t a relationship based on more than just sex? You think you are rejected for being Chinese. I just cant believe this. People who reject you are probably not “rejecting” you, they are probably are assholes who don’t know what you have to offer. I assume you are offering friendship, sexy fun, and are a nice guy. I also think you are too hard on the college guy, although I don’t have enough information. I had to teach my Chinese boyfriend everything, he had just come here and thought being gay was just sex in a bathroom with a stranger.I was so sad he was missing out on the reason he came here = = to be free and gay . I try every day to remind him that it is different here, we think differently due to different cultures.He appreciates what I did for him. But it is really hard to go a different way if you are Chinese. You need to accept yourself, and maybe look for love instead of sex. I’m 44 now, love and friendship is much more important than sex. I still love as much sex as I can get, but it is not worth being rejected, degraded, etc. to go to the bathhouse for sex. Think about it. It may not be the white guys fault. People who can see into your heart and soul may see that you are not happy. It is not because you are Chinese. I wish you the best, I hope you find what you want.

  145. June 3, 2001 at 2:07 PM

    I’m sorry to hear what you say about yourself and Asians in “Racism”. Don’t tell me it’s totally skin deep! In your experience, is this a N American phenomenon, or maybe restricted to the zone your Bathhouse is in? The whole thing sounds absurd. I’m Norwegian (so white, blond etc), 38 and looking younger (and have the same problem with the grey crowd as you) but have never been “turned off” by Asians. What turns me on is the character of the person – there are too many “good looking” guys out there to get hung on just the outside – if you want fun, even just an evening’s worth, you need someone with character, man, and that’s totally unconnected to ethnic origin. One of my friends is from Indonesia, and he’s my friend because he is interesting and has talent.

  146. usdude
    January 22, 2001 at 1:05 AM

    Your bathhouse stories are interesting. I am a 32 y/o Chinese male myself. I can certainly share some of your experiences. A lot of white guys are not into Asian men. Although I really have not had older guys hit on me. When I first came out, I went to many different bathhouses, but I found them to be all somewhat impersonal. And has subsequently cut down on my visits. I would be really interested in finding out your bathhouse, since you find it so friendly.

  147. Nick Cossey
    December 13, 2000 at 10:53 PM

    I think that all of your stories are great. It really gives a visual image of your experiences at the bath house. And popular to contrary belief, I think that Chinese guys are hot!!!!

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